Organizing Communities Into Multiplying House Churches with Sarah Wood
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Jeremy Pryor: [00:00:00] one of the things I find the most strange about the history of Christianity, [00:00:05] is I don't understand how did we get to the place where, the [00:00:10] primary way that, you know, that you're sort of like doing church, is that, [00:00:15] you've listened to a lecture once a week, like right.
That is [00:00:20] so strange to me.
People will leave actually feeling, if another week goes by that I don't listen [00:00:25] to a lecture. I. I don't feel like I'm a good Christian like that.
That's how ingrained [00:00:30] it's not, it's not even about the learning, it's about listening to the lecture. It's that deep in our [00:00:35] DNA [00:00:40] [00:00:45] [00:00:50] [00:00:55] [00:01:00] [00:01:05] everybody, welcome [00:01:10] back to the podcast. I'm here, uh, with Sarah Wood. Sarah is from a [00:01:15] Little Rock, Arkansas, and is a part of an organization called Dwelling. Sarah, first of all, just thanks [00:01:20] for jumping on the podcast with me today.
Sarah Wood: Thanks for having me.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah. So you guys know, one of the things I [00:01:25] love to do here is just understand the story of how God has led, [00:01:30] uh, different communities into exploring how to do church [00:01:35] and in ways that, um, are sometimes innovative, sometimes are back to, [00:01:40] you know, more basic biblical principles.
I think that these are very difficult things to figure [00:01:45] out. I have enormous respect for. If anyone who's trying, and especially if they're finding any [00:01:50] measure of success, so, um, what I like, love to do, uh, is to hear the [00:01:55] stories and then kind of walk through the blueprint that is kind of, [00:02:00] uh, the, is undergirding the expression of church.
Um, and so [00:02:05] Sarah is a part of an organization called Dwellings and I've been following them, uh, [00:02:10] pretty recently, like for about last three months, and I've just been like, wow, this is definitely something I wanna understand more [00:02:15] about. Um, they also I think, offer coaching for House church, [00:02:20] um, practitioners.
And so, um, Sarah, I just, I, I'm very new at understanding [00:02:25] Dwellings and what you guys do, but I've heard and seen enough that I, I'm very excited to have this conversation. It's kinda where I like to start. [00:02:30] It's just like, let me hear the whole story. So. Let's start, I'd love to hear your story, um, [00:02:35] how dwellings started and then we'll, we'll, we'll kind of burrow in a little bit to the [00:02:40] blueprint and then I'd love to like end with like any way that people can engage with you guys.
But [00:02:45] yeah, let's start with the story. Yeah.
Sarah Wood: Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, dwellings is, [00:02:50] um, is just a small community. It's a team here in Little Rock, and our [00:02:55] mission is to help other people cultivate their own communities around the [00:03:00] presence of Jesus. And so we really do champion, um, home-based [00:03:05] communities. We love those.
Like you said, it's not always easy and people need, um. [00:03:10] You know, some ideas and some support on how to get started. So, um, so the [00:03:15] way we got started as an organization was, um, it was about [00:03:20] probably 2020. Um, there were a few of us who started meeting together. This was [00:03:25] during the years of Covid, uh, time of Covid.
And people couldn't meet [00:03:30] together, um, in large groups or there were lots of restrictions. So a few of us started meeting [00:03:35] together in front yards, to be honest, and um, to have kind of a church [00:03:40] type, um, setting. And we found that we really enjoyed that. And we felt like there [00:03:45] was something to this small, familial, family oriented, um, [00:03:50] circling up of people sharing around God's word, worshiping together.[00:03:55]
And that sort of thing. So it kind of started to birth a seed in some of us. Like, huh, what is [00:04:00] this? Like could this be developed further? Could we even potentially do church like [00:04:05] this? Is this even allowed? We don't know. Um, and so [00:04:10] that sort of started laying the groundwork. For what, um, started [00:04:15] to be birthed in some of our hearts and we continued with that home-based [00:04:20] gathering and just decided to explore, well, could, could this become a house [00:04:25] church?
Like what is that? Who's doing that? How do we do that? You know? And um, we [00:04:30] started looking up different, um, people and groups really around the, the globe [00:04:35] who have started or are trying to do some of that. And thought, well, let's just, let's [00:04:40] just move slowly and prayerfully and try to discern. Right now we're just gonna be a house [00:04:45] community.
And then if we feel like it's gonna morph more into becoming a church, then we'll just follow God's leadership. [00:04:50] So I'd say over the past four, four and a half years, we have made [00:04:55] that progression. Um. And we've just, we've decided, [00:05:00] you know, well, we'd really like for this to be our church expression. Um, and [00:05:05] so let's, let's pour into that.
Let's see what's there. Well, in the meantime, we started having [00:05:10] conversations with people from a lot of different places, as I'm sure you've, you've been doing as well, [00:05:15] who have a similar interest. You have a similar hunger. And so we started making some [00:05:20] relationship. Connections and, um, discovered, okay, there's something [00:05:25] here.
We don't know exactly what, but there's something here. So, so [00:05:30] dwellings as an organization is, is independent of the House church that I've been [00:05:35] telling you about, but it's an organization that seeks to help other [00:05:40] people, um, who are searching for this kind of home-based expression. So it's kind of like.[00:05:45]
We started practicing this on the ground and then we said, oh, [00:05:50] there's a lot of people who are interested. Yeah. Let's see if we can start this [00:05:55] nonprofit to help those who might be interested as well. Awesome. So we're practicing and, and trying to do it ourselves. [00:06:00]
Jeremy Pryor: Very good. Yeah, that's, that, that's man, yeah.
That's a great story [00:06:05] and I so need it. So there's two, two parts to your story I wanna kind of dive into. I'd love to hear just personally from [00:06:10] you. Um, what that transition was like, like were you a part of a traditional church and then how did, [00:06:15] how did you work through some of the tension of the transition?
Um, and then in the, on [00:06:20] what, what you guys started in that four and a half years when you looked around. Yeah. [00:06:25] For help. Mm-hmm. This, this has been for a lot. It's one of the reasons why I find what you guys do. So encouraging [00:06:30] because I think it's sometimes difficult to find, um, adequate coaching and [00:06:35] resources there, there are some out there, but I'm, yeah, I'd love to hear what, what were some of those [00:06:40] that were helpful?
As you guys were on that journey, but yeah, I'll start with your story a little bit, a little bit more. I'm [00:06:45] curious how that transition was for you. Yeah,
Sarah Wood: yeah. So my personal story, I was involved in a, [00:06:50] a large traditional church, and actually my dad was one of the founding pastors at [00:06:55] that church. And so I, I have a whole history of being involved in established [00:07:00] church and I love it and I, I champion it.
So the way I personally view [00:07:05] church, um. Is that I feel like we need multiple forms of it. So we [00:07:10] do need the traditional, more established forms of church. And then we also do need the [00:07:15] smaller house church forms working in partnership together. And I think that that develops the most healthy [00:07:20] ecosystem of the Broad Sea Church around the globe.
People are coming, um, with [00:07:25] different needs and different um. You know, preferences or issues around [00:07:30] church, and so I think there's a variety. So yes, I came from a traditional church background. [00:07:35] The transition for me in that there was some awkwardness, you know? Yeah. There's some awkwardness, like [00:07:40] I mentioned before, this question of.
Can we do this? You know? Yeah. Is this, who's [00:07:45] gonna, who gives permission for this? Or do I need permission to do this? So there was some, you [00:07:50] know, um, little bit of like working through some of those insecurities. [00:07:55] Um, but we kept going back to, I. Well, what, what did Jesus [00:08:00] set up, you know, um, a long time ago in the first century?
What, what did he tell his [00:08:05] disciples to do and how did they start meeting and gathering? And we, we [00:08:10] found that, well, they, they also were meeting in homes. You know, the actual institutional church [00:08:15] building didn't start for the first in it 300 years or so. I, I [00:08:20] think that's about right. And so we kind of started looking at some of that and going, well, what does God's word [00:08:25] say?
What, what did he actually say to his disciples about how to live [00:08:30] out the great commission? How to, you know, immerse yourself in your community, how to [00:08:35] invite your neighbors in, how to live and break bread together with other believing [00:08:40] disciples. How, how to do this life. And we thought, okay. If we go back [00:08:45] to scripture and we look at exactly what Jesus said and what he taught and what his very [00:08:50] earliest disciples were doing, that's maybe a picture of kind of where we wanna step into.
I. [00:08:55] So it, uh, yeah, so that's part of the transition. It's been very, you know, [00:09:00] experimental and it's been, it's been, I'll tell you what's been really good about it. There was a [00:09:05] hunger in me, and I think in some of us, for a sense [00:09:10] of closer knit belonging or, um, kind of authentic [00:09:15] community that, um, is a little harder to, to sometimes establish when you're [00:09:20] involved in something very large.
Yeah. And, um. So that [00:09:25] hunger for that more family type, intimate setting, I mean in a home [00:09:30] first of all, which is just more intimate, um, was kind of what also fed [00:09:35] us into this transition. It was what motivated us towards it, and we found that some of those [00:09:40] relational, emotional, um, desires being met in this [00:09:45] form that were, that were sweet and precious.
Yeah.
Jeremy Pryor: Good. Do, do you, you, you [00:09:50] mentioned. So the traditional church, uh, has, uh, [00:09:55] a resources and, and a way of expressing that that is still critical. How do you guys [00:10:00] relate to that structure? Do you, um, mm-hmm. Are you a part of a traditional church? Do you receive [00:10:05] any I. Uh, any support like formally or informally from a traditional church?
Sarah Wood: [00:10:10] No. So we don't, we are not receiving any kinda support. Um, we would say we're relationally [00:10:15] connected to a number of established churches, um, that we're friends with, that we have relationships [00:10:20] with. We have invited them to come to, uh, our worship nights. We've attended [00:10:25] their, um, gatherings on occasion. We, we have [00:10:30] relationships with a co, a few local pastors here in Little Rock, and we've, we've combined [00:10:35] efforts and done things in the community with them.
Um, so yeah, I'd say we're very supportive [00:10:40] of, you know, their role and our community and then they've been supportive of ours as [00:10:45] well. It's not a competition, you know, we feel like let's, let's see what we can do together. Awesome. Um, in this [00:10:50] community? Yeah. Okay.
Jeremy Pryor: And then I, yeah. I'm curious, like I said, over the four and a half years, what were there [00:10:55] books, thought leaders, uh, other people or coaches or organizations you found most [00:11:00] helpful?
In trying to do it. 'cause that, I find so many people get stuck in this phase of like, oh, I don't like the, [00:11:05] how the, I mean, there's a million questions like what do we do with the kids? What do we do with tight? I mean, people are, I mean, [00:11:10] there's so many questions. So how did you guys work through some of that stuff?
Sarah Wood: Yeah. Well, we, we have [00:11:15] visited with some folks from, um, the Kansas City Underground. And, um, that's, that's been helpful just to [00:11:20] see how they structure, um, their organization with their house groups. [00:11:25] Um, we have also spent some time, so our team has one of our team members. [00:11:30] Lives in Northern Ireland. Um, his name is David Legg.
And Katherine and [00:11:35] David got to know each other about six years ago by meeting, not meeting, [00:11:40] but Katherine heard him speaking on a podcast about the presence of God. She ended up reaching out to [00:11:45] him. They became friends, and it says, started this series for the last several years [00:11:50] of us. Going back and forth.
So he'll come to Little Rock and, um, do some work with us [00:11:55] on the ground here or through our cohort, which I'll tell you about, uh, in a little while. [00:12:00] And then we've also been over to the United Kingdom because he's doing the same kind of house church [00:12:05] expression there. So as far as where have we been inspired, we've actually, [00:12:10] through some of our trips to, um, London and Northern Ireland and even [00:12:15] Oxford, we've been able to.
Um, meet some really [00:12:20] amazing leaders, both church and lay leaders who are doing some of these things on the ground there. And what [00:12:25] we've found, this is fresh on my mind because we just got back, well, not just got back, but we, [00:12:30] we spent, uh, a week in the United Kingdom area with our cohort, um, [00:12:35] in the last week of January of this year.
And we visited so many great, like I was [00:12:40] saying, like churches that have some of these smaller house expressions. And [00:12:45] it was just, it was kind of inspiring to see, okay, this is a, this is a country that's older than [00:12:50] ours, um, that has a lot of tradition and the established [00:12:55] church, especially the Anglican church and yet is sort of open to some of these new ideas [00:13:00] about meeting in smaller home communities.
So I'd say we've been inspired from, from some of those [00:13:05] relationships.
Jeremy Pryor: Oh, that's great, man. I love that, that, yeah, you guys, it's so important to find [00:13:10] others that are on this journey. Um, so that especially as we're kind of restoring [00:13:15] practices, it's like, okay, we've got a lot of so just to go and like, I know it's expensive.
I know it takes time, but like, [00:13:20] even if it's overseas, like, go see how this is done somewhere else. [00:13:25] And get exposed to it. We've, we spent a lot of time talking to the guys at Kansas City Underground as well, and [00:13:30] that's been really helpful for us. So, okay, so you guys, so four and a half years you were beginning this [00:13:35] process.
Um, so, uh, one, one of the things that I immediately jumped out at me, both, you've said it [00:13:40] twice, at least now in this conversation, and I saw it on a lot of your material, is the idea of. The presence of [00:13:45] Christ, like, like connecting people to Christ first. Mm-hmm. Ob obviously people they, [00:13:50] like when we were having this conversation about church, they just wanna say, how do we do it?
How do we like, you know, like, like [00:13:55] gimme, gimme the blueprint. But, um, but it seems like you guys are like, slow down. There's, this is about, so, [00:14:00] so walk me into where does, like, why is that a, um. A [00:14:05] a, a distinctive and talk, talk to me about how that, that relates to what you guys are doing. [00:14:10]
Sarah Wood: Yeah. We, we would say that the presence of God is at the center of, of really [00:14:15] everything that we, we hope to and want to do.
So, um, yeah, [00:14:20] we wanna help both ourselves and those that we're gathering with to experience to come to God's [00:14:25] presence. If there's really no, no other reason why we would be doing the things that we're doing. 'cause it's not [00:14:30] about. Um, best trying to make people more like us or us trying to [00:14:35] just, you know, get excited about some new ideas.
We're saying, no, we really wanna come into and step into [00:14:40] the presence of Christ and be transformed by him. So, [00:14:45] um, so yeah, we, we feel like that should really undergird everything that we do and say [00:14:50] it's, it's this idea about, I read, I read this book, uh, uh, [00:14:55] about four years ago also by, um, Rory Godwin called the Out the Out.[00:15:00]
Grace Outpouring and he, um, established a [00:15:05] prayer, uh, community in Southern Wales. And the whole purpose of his ministry [00:15:10] was to help people step into the presence of God. And so he literally [00:15:15] would I. Take people at this prayer retreat center where he, where he worked and lived, and he would [00:15:20] walk them into the chapel and he would pray a simple blessing over them and then he would [00:15:25] leave and he wanted them to encounter God first and personally.
And so I'd say [00:15:30] that that for me, that kind of, um. That helped me navigate this [00:15:35] whole thing about, yeah, that's what I would want us to be a part of. It's like saying, no, here, let me walk [00:15:40] you or, or at least guide you to this presence and then I'm gonna get outta the way. [00:15:45] Because really it's Jesus that it can change you, not me.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah.
Sarah Wood: So,
Jeremy Pryor: [00:15:50] awesome. Very good. Yeah. Uh, and so as you guys are engaging, [00:15:55] um, and so there's obviously like kind of two stories. There's your story, but then there's somebody who comes [00:16:00] to you and says, okay. We're, we're wanting to start something, right? What are the steps you recommend? [00:16:05] And so, um, yeah. First of all, how, how do you h how do you [00:16:10] evaluate someone who's like, uh, I'm thinking about starting this.
Uh, how do you guys talk [00:16:15] to, um, uh, either a, a family, a couple, a group, uh. A small [00:16:20] group or a, a small community about whether or not beginning this [00:16:25] progression is, um, is really the right next step for them. And then I'd love for you just kinda [00:16:30] walk me through what that might traditionally, typically look like as you guys are coaching a community.
Sarah Wood: Yeah. Okay, [00:16:35] great. Um, yeah, when we've had people that have reached out and said, [00:16:40] Hey, we're, you know, I live in some other. Place or state, and I'm interested in what you're doing and I'm kind of [00:16:45] thinking about maybe trying this myself. I'd say the first thing that that we would do is [00:16:50] just a form a relationship.
I mean, just doing what you and I are doing today. So getting to know one another, [00:16:55] saying, well, tell me what your, your dreams are and what your community sense is and what you, what [00:17:00] you're desiring and what you're hoping and, and if it is to form a community. 'cause we say it could either [00:17:05] be a. Community.
Some people prefer to call it that, and some people prefer to go all the way and say, [00:17:10] no, I'm starting a house church. So we kind of see those as two separate things. Then the way, [00:17:15] we have several ways of partnering together. Um, but the first thing we'd [00:17:20] say is, um, pause and pray. You know, see if you feel like this is actually, I.[00:17:25]
And the Holy Spirit kind of guiding you into this next step. And then even [00:17:30] as you, let's say it's a group or a, a person or a couple and they're thinking about it, we'd say, [00:17:35] go ahead and, and pursue it, but keep praying. Because it may be that you get into this [00:17:40] and you go, well, this isn't quite what I feel like God's following me to.
So you can continue to have an [00:17:45] evaluative posture. It's not like you're. Signing away your life. Um, so, [00:17:50] but, but we, we try to help people in two ways. Um, one is [00:17:55] we have the dwellings cohort, which I mentioned earlier, and this is a group of [00:18:00] about 50 people and we meet for six months of the year, three in-person [00:18:05] gatherings, and then, um, a number of online Zoom gatherings.
And [00:18:10] the whole purpose of this. Uh, this learning journey is [00:18:15] to explore and practice together ways of building community around the presence of Christ. [00:18:20] So we have a number of resources that are on our website. Um, we work through some of [00:18:25] those. We have some live teaching. We have a lot of interaction 'cause we really believe in a more [00:18:30] collaborative learning experience.
We'll have people that end up informing us [00:18:35] about things that they're learning or doing. We take a lot of cues from, [00:18:40] um. Other places around the world, the global church and what they're doing. 'cause we feel like we can [00:18:45] learn a lot from them. Um, so the dwellings cohort would be option [00:18:50] number one, and that is a cost to participate.
And that is three live [00:18:55] events that you can, you just need to go to two of them and then beyond online. [00:19:00] Um, if that's not a possibility, then we have. On our dwellings, uh, [00:19:05] website, we have, it's called the Dwellings Pathway, and it is just [00:19:10] an online resourcing place that, that includes all of our guides and [00:19:15] tools.
So if someone was saying, well, we're thinking about becoming a House church, we have no idea what to do to get [00:19:20] started, we'd say, great. We have free, a free resource for you. Why don't you take a look [00:19:25] at it. It's called the House Church Guide. It's an eight week course. You can go through it. [00:19:30] As a, as a community with a few couples, you can go through it with your [00:19:35] family.
Um, you choose and just kind of evaluate, is this where we still feel like we're being led? [00:19:40] Um, so we have that. Then we have, um, a [00:19:45] guide also that if a, if a house church has been meeting for quite some time and they're feeling [00:19:50] like. Well, gosh, we have really almost too many people in this gathering, in this [00:19:55] one living room or kitchen.
Then we'd say, well, we, we have a multiply guide. Why don't you [00:20:00] look at that, pray and discern as a group. Is it time I. For you to multiply so that some [00:20:05] people go out and then invite their neighbors into their home setting. 'cause you don't wanna get too [00:20:10] big. Yeah. Um, so, so that's a couple of ways that we try to resource people.
If there's an [00:20:15] online, um, option with this dwellings pathway that I'm talking about, and [00:20:20] then there is an in-person way through this dwellings cohort that's that six months. Six month [00:20:25] journey. Okay. So those are the two ways right now. Yeah.
Jeremy Pryor: That's excellent. Yeah, so the, [00:20:30] and I love that you guys have those different options.
I think that, yeah, some people it's, it's so great to get the [00:20:35] coaching, to be a part of the cohort, to have that, to be journeying. I mean, I always would encourage, this is a very [00:20:40] serious undertaking, so if you're gonna do it. Find a coach, find a cohort, like go through it with some, some others, [00:20:45] right. Uh, make sure that you have that community with you.
That is, you know, that has [00:20:50] people in it that are kind of thinking about the path, you know, but I think it's great to also give them a taster [00:20:55] of that as well in, uh, in the free online resources. I think that's, that's super helpful. Awesome. So [00:21:00] as, as somebody's and I'm, I'm curious, what would you say are the, um, the [00:21:05] things that.
As you the four and a half years story plus as you've led some [00:21:10] cohorts, what, what are the, what are some of the learnings for you that maybe surprised you or that you've [00:21:15] had to, like, what are some of the kind of key things like, ooh, wow, this is actually really important. Maybe just [00:21:20] even in your interaction with other communities that a lot of people maybe they don't think about, uh, [00:21:25] as, as a critical component of, of forming a, a community or house, church.
Sarah Wood: Yeah, [00:21:30] that's a great question. Um, yeah, I've got a couple thoughts, a couple different ways of answering that. [00:21:35] Um, one of them I would say is, um, our, the dwellings [00:21:40] team and even our, our House church that is associated, but two separate things we have [00:21:45] been pressing into, uh, just the practice of, of prayer.
More like as a [00:21:50] community. So we have kind of a midweek time right now where people are gathering to pray. It can be [00:21:55] anyone in the community, but it's mostly just people from our dwellings community and [00:22:00] um, just kind of exploring what, how that really should be the foundation for any kind of. [00:22:05] You know, transformation that might occur in a, in a ne neighborhood or a community.
[00:22:10] So we've been learning about that and trying to practice that. That seems to be a [00:22:15] consistent theme or interest from those that we've been talking to in this world. Um, there seems to [00:22:20] be a heightened awareness of. Um, prayer. Like, let's not forget that. Let's [00:22:25] invite the Holy Spirit here. Um, and we're not just seeing that in our community.
We've seen that [00:22:30] around the world too, and we think that's important. It seems so basic, but it's really important. [00:22:35] Um,
Jeremy Pryor: one, one thought on that that has always blown me away is, you know, in the Book of [00:22:40] Acts, um, there really isn't a description of the kind of modern worship service [00:22:45] as we. Experience it today in that traditional church, but man, were there a lot of prayer [00:22:50] meetings over and over again.
I mean, so that's the most common meeting in the book of Acts [00:22:55] is, is. Is believers gathering for prayer. And so, yeah, I think [00:23:00] to not have a rhythmic, um, pattern of praying together [00:23:05] does seem like if you're going getting, you might think by starting a house church, you're kinda going back to, [00:23:10] um, uh, like an acts kind of experience.
But if you're not doing that, I. Somehow with prayer being [00:23:15] kind of central, it does feel like you are possibly missing the biggest piece. So, um, [00:23:20] yeah, that's really, really good. Yeah. What else have you guys seen
Sarah Wood: there? Yeah, yeah. Well, um, the other thing [00:23:25] that comes to mind when I think about, you know, what seems to be catching on, and again, this [00:23:30] seems to, this seems basic and simple, but it has been.
It's been pretty powerful. At the same [00:23:35] time, we, we just have a really simple practice in our house church, um, that we [00:23:40] do on a repetitive basis as, as far as how to actually structure our time together. [00:23:45] So I thought I would just walk you through that. Yes, please.
Jeremy Pryor: That'd be great.
Sarah Wood: Okay. So we do meet on a Sunday [00:23:50] morning and we do meet in, in someone's living room.
And we do have [00:23:55] like a shared responsibility. So one of the biggest goals for our House Church community was we [00:24:00] wanted. Everyone to be involved. We didn't want it to be led by just one person. Um, we didn't [00:24:05] want any of the responsibility to just fall on one lead, you know, expert. So [00:24:10] we said from the very beginning, if we're gonna do this, everybody's gonna have a role every Sunday [00:24:15] and or every, you know, some churches might choose to meet on a Saturday or whatever, [00:24:20] and um, and we're all gonna pitch in.
So. So we have, uh, somebody who will [00:24:25] bring food and because we meet in the morning, it's breakfast food, we have, um, somebody, [00:24:30] and sometimes it's a teenager, um, who will serve communion to us sometime in the morning. [00:24:35] Um, we have a rotating, um, schedule for people who are gonna [00:24:40] lead. The actual discussion that, that we have as a group.
And we also have a [00:24:45] rotating, um, schedule for people who are gonna help with, with worship. So, [00:24:50] and worship can be simple. I mean, it, we do have some musically talented people in our group. [00:24:55] Most groups do not, and we're aware of that. So there are a variety of [00:25:00] ways that you can participate in worship. It doesn't have to be, um, with a, [00:25:05] an instrument and a talented singer, right?
It can be through, um. [00:25:10] Reciting or reading through a psalm or liturgy together. It could be through listening [00:25:15] to, um, a recorded music that you sing along with. So we we're [00:25:20] exploring that area 'cause we know that that's an area that not everybody, uh, has talented musicians in and they [00:25:25] don't need to 'cause anybody can worship.
So, yeah. Um. But, uh, but [00:25:30] so one of the foundational ways that the discussion facilitator will [00:25:35] lead the, um, the discussion is just with this simple five step, [00:25:40] uh. Process that we call the Gathering Guide, and it's just about gathering [00:25:45] around the actual scripture. So we'll pick a different passage of scripture.
Sometimes we'll [00:25:50] pick a book of the Bible and read one chapter a week. Uh, yeah, a week. Or sometimes we'll [00:25:55] pick varied passages. We try to match it with like the broad church calendar. What's happening [00:26:00] there. So what's happening around. Um, Easter [00:26:05] Resurrection, Pentecost. We'll try to pick some passages of scripture, but the gathering guide can be [00:26:10] applied to any passage of scripture.
And so what the facilitator has to do [00:26:15] is, this is the actual gathering guide. This is a, it's a one, one page PDF with five [00:26:20] steps, so anybody can follow it. But the goal is to, is to center ourselves and [00:26:25] gather around the presence of Jesus. And we do that by first inviting the Holy Spirit to [00:26:30] be present.
Then by reading a passage of scripture aloud. So the whole room sits in a [00:26:35] circle and we just say, here's the passage. We're gonna start right here. We're gonna go around the circle and we're gonna read [00:26:40] it. And while we're reading it, we're asking the Holy Spirit to um, highlight what, [00:26:45] what he wants to highlight to us.
Then we take about five to eight minutes to silently [00:26:50] reflect on that passage. So this is helpful because. Um, and I probably [00:26:55] in any group, but you're gonna have those who are more extroverted and more, can more easily process [00:27:00] information and dialogue naturally. And then you've got the thinkers. I'm more of a thinker.
I need a little [00:27:05] processing time. I'm a little slower to formulate what I think. So that five to eight [00:27:10] minutes of just, um, pouring over your, your own scripture right in front, in your lap. [00:27:15] Um, is helpful for everyone in the room. And then we, uh, [00:27:20] discuss what we feel like the Holy Spirit is drawing out to us.
So really the [00:27:25] sermon is scripture. It's, um, I. You know, it, it, it's [00:27:30] amazing how you can just sit with that itself and pick out these phrases and say, what do you think [00:27:35] God meant here? And what do you think Jesus is implying here? And how can we apply this to our lives [00:27:40] and what, what else does he want us to know?
And then we end it with praying. We get into groups [00:27:45] of two or three, and we just pray in action, step over one another. So, you know, it, [00:27:50] it seems really basic and it is, but it's, it's also modeled after what some of these global [00:27:55] churches do, um, in other parts of the world. And, um, it's just not the only thing [00:28:00] we do, but this is how we gather around scripture.
'cause we really want scripture to be central. So that's an, [00:28:05] that's an example.
Jeremy Pryor: Super helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Very similar to the scripture Bible studies that are happening. Absolutely. That's [00:28:10] what we adapted.
Sarah Wood: It's exactly what we adapted that from. Yes. Yeah.
Jeremy Pryor: I'm a huge fan of that. I, I lead one of [00:28:15] those every week and.
Yeah, that's, uh, I think that's a, such a incredibly powerful [00:28:20] and, and important tool. Mm-hmm. Um, awesome. Okay. So you guys, so you're in the morning, you [00:28:25] gather, you have, um, some food communion, um, you do the [00:28:30] worship time. Um, you're in the presence of God, you, you and you do the five [00:28:35] step process of, of going through the scriptures together.
That's great. Mm-hmm. Excellent. Yeah. Any, anything else, any [00:28:40] other rhythm? You, you mentioned the prayer rhythm, so I'm curious like if, if somebody was like, Hey, what's a week in the life, month in life, a year in the [00:28:45] life, any other things you would say are kind of, you've learned to kind of like balance out the, the full [00:28:50] rhythm of what you guys are, are doing together?
Sarah Wood: Yeah, so we do have, we have had [00:28:55] some, uh, seasonal baptism gatherings where we'll. Announce beforehand, [00:29:00] you know, on this particular day and time, we're gonna allow for some baptisms. Um, be sure and let [00:29:05] us know if, if some, you know, we'll usually have had someone who says I'm interested in this. So, um, [00:29:10] we'll gather around to celebrate that.
Okay. Um, we would have a special celebration [00:29:15] for like Good Friday. We established this very simple [00:29:20] stations of the cross and we said, Hey, everybody come to the driveway. We're gonna have [00:29:25] this station set up. Let's really relish and celebrate. Well actually be sober [00:29:30] together on Good Friday. Um, we, there's a second house [00:29:35] church in our local, uh, in Little Rock that's local that kind of [00:29:40] burst out of hours.
And so occasionally we'll get together with that other group and we usually [00:29:45] need to meet in a backyard or something 'cause it's getting a little bit too many people. So we do that once a [00:29:50] quarter.
Jeremy Pryor: Oh, nice. Okay. Excellent. Very good. Well, and speaking of that, so you're [00:29:55] guide on multiplication. I'd love for you to give me kind of what, what do you find, because this is [00:30:00] a, I find it's like.
When a, when a church, a house, church is kind of in that [00:30:05] almost pregnant moment. It's like there's, there's a lot of potential stress, [00:30:10] danger, you know, and, uh, can, can, can we do this in a way that we're both, [00:30:15] uh, both groups benefit? So I'm curious if there's anything you would say you found [00:30:20] is kind of a critical component to making that a healthy experience.
Sarah Wood: Well, you know, what we would say is [00:30:25] that from the very beginning, it needs to be communicated to the group who who is gathering [00:30:30] together. Look, our goal from the beginning is not to stay insular, but it is to [00:30:35] multiply. So just know that as you join this family, it's not intended [00:30:40] that we always. Stay exactly the same population.
And, and I think that [00:30:45] expectation is hopefully helpful because then it can prepare people for when there is, [00:30:50] and then it becomes more of a celebration. Remember, this is what we said we were about from the very beginning. [00:30:55] So you know, this particular couple is now going to their neighborhood, which is 20 minutes away from [00:31:00] our, and they're gonna be meeting with their neighbors and they're taking this couple with them.
We are so [00:31:05] happy about that. Hmm. So it sets the expectation for that. Um. So, [00:31:10] yeah, I mean, we're still, you know, I would say that's still an area that we're all learning about. It's, we have [00:31:15] also seen that there have been times where someone. Whether it's in our [00:31:20] community or in our city, is a little bit interested.
They haven't even come to our House [00:31:25] church before, but they're interested in beginning a community. They'll come and visit for a [00:31:30] few Sundays and then they'll go ahead and launch out. So that's like, it's not [00:31:35] really coming from, you know, our original community, but it's someone who's just coming to visit and then go.
[00:31:40] So, um, so that's another way that we feel like multiplication can happen. Just where with sort of a. [00:31:45] Come and visit. Yeah. If this works for you, then let's be in relationship together.
Jeremy Pryor: Awesome. [00:31:50] And have you guys found any, any roles to be helpful? Either like leadership or [00:31:55] support roles to call them out? Um,
Sarah Wood: yeah.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah. Any, any thoughts about that?
Sarah Wood: Well, we, so we [00:32:00] have, yes, we have, um, from the beginning of establishing this house [00:32:05] church, we decided that we needed to have some local discernment. [00:32:10] Mentors for us that, um, we asked just to say, Hey, can we run some things by you from time [00:32:15] to time? We wanna be grounded, um, theologically and scripturally it.
Would you be [00:32:20] willing to sort of serve as a discernment board for us? And, um, so we have a few members of our [00:32:25] community that are not, they're not plugged into our host church, but they're, why we would consider [00:32:30] them wise, um, biblical role models in the community. And so we've said, can we. Partner with you.
[00:32:35] Can you speak into us? Okay. So that's important. Um, we, [00:32:40] we don't have like a, a pastor. There's not like one lead pastor. [00:32:45] We, we love pastors. Um, we're, we love their teaching. We love [00:32:50] utilizing it, but it, for our house church, we didn't want just one person to be the one responsible to speak every [00:32:55] time. So, like I said, we've kind of more developed around, dialoguing together, inviting [00:33:00] everyone to speak.
Um, there is one, um, one [00:33:05] role in our group who just helps coordinate worship. It doesn't mean that she has to do it [00:33:10] every single Sunday, but she tries to invite other families in what, with whatever role they have. [00:33:15] Um, so she kind of helps in that area. Um, I've helped. [00:33:20] I help a little bit with like, just, uh, making sure that the kids have [00:33:25] some, you know, some, some activities and some things to do.
We have a few younger kids, so we kind of wanna [00:33:30] cover that, make sure that there's a little place with, you know, activities for them, but we want them to be [00:33:35] involved with us. Um. And, and then like I said, this schedule that we have, it's [00:33:40] just a Google sheet. It's the easiest thing. Yeah. And we share that on our website too.
Okay. For [00:33:45] anybody who might wanna copy it. But we just say, you just need to fill your name in right. In one of these categories and be [00:33:50] prepared to participate.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah. I find that so easy. You know, thank God for Google [00:33:55] Docs. I guess, you know, people can jump on there just Yeah. Here's the five things we need every week, you know?
[00:34:00] That's right. And we have
Sarah Wood: to encourage people to do it, but yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah. Sometimes you have to [00:34:05] tell, Hey guys, like. Jump on there. Um, right. So, so, yeah. So, so somebody [00:34:10] since, so somebody's, and I like the idea that instead of having somebody be the leader of it, [00:34:15] they're the coordinator of it. So like the, you're coordinating worship and so sometimes that means you put your name down [00:34:20] sometimes, but obviously the ideal is that you're finding ways to get more people involved.[00:34:25]
Um, and then I, yeah, we get these, this the question about kids all the time. So it sounds like you're, [00:34:30] the way you guys approach that is to have, just have a, have a person responsible for just making sure there's something [00:34:35] for the kids to, and and what our, our experience at my, um, so, uh, in my other [00:34:40] life, I, I do family team, so I'm very involved in helping families, um, [00:34:45] grow.
And so we tend to have an unusually large number of children. Anything we [00:34:50] start or are part of. So I dunno if you guys have. Um, [00:34:55] that dynamic or in some of the cohorts you've seen that. Um, but, but yeah. Any, any other [00:35:00] pointers or would you recommend childcare for like, maybe really little kids or, yeah. Any, any ways that you [00:35:05] guys have found that have really helped the kids engage or helped the parents engage, [00:35:10] um, in a house setting with, with young kids?
Sarah Wood: Right, right. Yeah. So we, [00:35:15] we actually want the kids to be involved in our time of worship. So if we're singing, if we're, [00:35:20] um, we even have some little, uh, instruments that the kids can hold and kind of shake and do that sort [00:35:25] of thing. So this is, this is before we actually gather up as the more. Upper teenage, [00:35:30] you know, years to adult, um, are gonna have a discussion.
We want the kids to be all involved [00:35:35] at that point. We do have, um, a, a volunteer plus one [00:35:40] parent who, who has to be, um, has to volunteer their time each Sunday. And it's a [00:35:45] rotating schedule, just like everything else. They go and make sure that the children are, are in a [00:35:50] sep another little area of the home.
It can still be in the same room with the. With the families, it can be, you [00:35:55] know, the room next door. We've found that that tends to work best just to have the, a little activity for [00:36:00] them while the adults are having a conversation. This is a hard and sensitive subject, so we don't [00:36:05] prescribe it per se because we wanna be sensitive to everybody's family needs and [00:36:10] children's needs for, uh, you know, their safety needs first and foremost.
So it's not something that we've come out and said [00:36:15] this is that how everybody should do it because it is sensitive. Okay.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah, it makes sense. [00:36:20] So one of the things I've noticed just about dwellings as an organization, um, is you [00:36:25] guys do just a beautiful job of presenting yourself, like [00:36:30] online super helpful posts.
Like, you know, usually when I'm involved in the house [00:36:35] church world, it can be a little bit like. Rusty compared to, like, your churches have large budgets, you know, [00:36:40] they're constantly thinking about their brand or whatever. But I just find, yeah, there's something just beautiful and [00:36:45] simple and helpful about what you guys have built.
I'm curious how that happened, because that's, I know that's not [00:36:50] easy. Um, so yeah. Where did that, how did that that come about?
Sarah Wood: Yeah. Well first of all, [00:36:55] thank you so much for that. Um, I would say we, we do spend some [00:37:00] time, you know, trying to think about the language that we want to use, the, the heart behind it.
[00:37:05] Um, we, we do have some, um, some actual designers [00:37:10] that we will. Hire occasionally to help design and lay out some of our [00:37:15] materials to make it look like you said, um, aesthetically pleasing and, and, um, and [00:37:20] easy to follow and easy to use. Um, as far as the Instagram, um, I. [00:37:25] I, I, I work on that. I work on the content of that, and then I pass it to, um, the [00:37:30] person who actually posts it.
So, um, yeah, so I mean, I just, I thank you for what you're saying. It's [00:37:35] great. Yeah. I would just say just some thought and some desire to try to, um, [00:37:40] understand the pulse of, of what is needed out there for this particular audience, you know? [00:37:45] Um, and, uh, and then just, yeah, put, there is a value to us, you know, [00:37:50] aesthetics.
You don't wanna overemphasize it, like we're not trying to perform, [00:37:55] but we do feel like there's a value in it. And, um, and so we wanna do [00:38:00] things as best that we can in a pleasing way. So thank you for saying that.
Jeremy Pryor: Yeah, I, [00:38:05] yeah, it's an, it, it definitely caught my eye and, um. We were, we had somebody in our, in our [00:38:10] network that, um, we were very big into following mentoring brands online [00:38:15] as we're trying to understand various things.
We've started, you know, business things, ministry opportunities, [00:38:20] and they said, oh man, you guys, you have to check out what. Is going on with, with dwellings and I, I was like, [00:38:25] wow, this is so good. So good. Good job, Sarah. Thank you so much for caring about the beauty and the simplicity and the [00:38:30] helpfulness, because I know that takes a lot of work.
Um, and I, I find it helpful and I'm excited to [00:38:35] share it with others. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. Anything else that you think would be helpful to share with, with people who, [00:38:40] um, are just trying to get an understanding of what you guys do? Um, yeah. And how they might engage with [00:38:45] dwellings.
Sarah Wood: Well, um, yeah, I, I wanted to say one, one thing [00:38:50] that that probably gets me the most fired up about these home-based, um, churches [00:38:55] or home-based communities, is this idea of the shift from, [00:39:00] you know, being in a church environment that only focuses on a monologue.
To being [00:39:05] in a church environment that can really focus on a dialogue as a form of learning. So I've done some research [00:39:10] on this and I just found I was a former educator, so I found this really interesting that in the learning pyramid [00:39:15] there's an actual diagram that it shows a pyramid. Um, people remember [00:39:20] from listening to a monologue, 5%.
Of what they hear, five to [00:39:25] 10% of what they hear. So that would be, you know, your traditional classroom, lecture style [00:39:30] classroom, potentially a traditional, um, single person monologue, [00:39:35] sermon teaching, whatever you can remember about five to 10% unless you take really good notes. [00:39:40] Um, but if you're involved. In a dialogue, the memory retention goes up to 50 [00:39:45] to 75%.
Hmm. And so we just feel like, gosh, if that's the way that people [00:39:50] can actually be transformed spiritually in their minds, in their hearts, then why wouldn't we wanna make sure [00:39:55] that that was a, a part of our format? Um, and we see all through the scriptures how [00:40:00] Jesus. Constantly had discussions with his disciples.
He did preach, you know, we do have [00:40:05] records of that too, that is important. But he didn't, he didn't negate asking [00:40:10] questions. I mean, often he would ask open-ended questions to his disciples and that he knew that [00:40:15] was how their brains could learn was through that dialogue. So we just have taken cues from [00:40:20] that and wanted that to be part of, um, our model.
Jeremy Pryor: Awesome. So, yeah.
Sarah Wood: [00:40:25] And into
Jeremy Pryor: that, just, I just wanna say one thing that I, yeah. [00:40:30] The, one of the things I find the most strange about the history of Christianity [00:40:35] is I don't, it's, I've terrible time trying to understand how did we get to the [00:40:40] place where, the primary way that, you know, uh, and this is at your [00:40:45] average Christian, average Protestant, um, especially evangelical Christian, [00:40:50] that you're sort of like doing church, is that you've, you've [00:40:55] listened to a lecture once a week, like right.
That is so strange to me. It's not, [00:41:00] it's not the worship people feel guilty. Like you, you could do a worship time in your house [00:41:05] and then do a dialogue like Bible study and people will leave actually feeling if [00:41:10] they're, if another week goes by that I don't listen to a lecture. I. I don't feel like I'm a good [00:41:15] Christian like that.
That's how ingrained it's not, it's not even about the learning, it's about listening to [00:41:20] the lecture. It's that deep in our DNA and I find that so strange. [00:41:25] I mean, that's, Jesus taught through dialogue. Paul taught through dialogue. It's so clear there was, it was [00:41:30] primary dialogue. We don't have the, the recording of any sermons that were going, that were, that were lengthy, that [00:41:35] didn't involve dialogue.
Um, even the Sermon on the Mount seems to have been like a compilation of [00:41:40] conversations Jesus had because in the Book of Luke, it's clear that, that he was having these in, in a dialogue [00:41:45] form and throughout his ministry. And so yeah, this, this, this obsession [00:41:50] with the, the lecture, um, right, the one one to many communication when we know [00:41:55] that it's one of the worst forms of education, the worst formats of education that exists for us to [00:42:00] say, this is the pinnacle of what it means to follow Jesus.
Make sure you listen to a [00:42:05] lecture. Right. Um, you know, I, I've, I love, I listen to sermons all the time. I appreciate [00:42:10] a good lecture. Um. Mm-hmm. But man, I don't know how it got that ingrained. I mean, that, that is, that is [00:42:15] a crazy, uh, a strange development I think in the history of, of the Christian [00:42:20] religion. So,
Sarah Wood: yeah, it is, it's, it's.
Yeah, I was just gonna add it, [00:42:25] it, it encourages that, that unfortunate phenomenon of spectating. Yes. You know, [00:42:30] passive spectating. Yes. Um, which is just, that's the real
Jeremy Pryor: cost is the passivity of the here.
Sarah Wood: That's [00:42:35] right. Um, and so, yeah, one of, one of the shifts that we're trying to lean into, and you know, you are [00:42:40] as well, is let's flip that, you know, instead of the past spectating, let's say, Hey guys, let's be [00:42:45] active participants.
And according to who you are, you don't have to all be the exact same type of person, but [00:42:50] we can all participate.
Jeremy Pryor: So good. Awesome. Yeah. So, Sarah, tell where, where can people [00:42:55] find you? Any other next steps? It would be good to call out if people wanted to jump into what you
Sarah Wood: Yeah. Um, you can [00:43:00] follow us on our website at um, www dot dwellings.
Do info [00:43:05] INFO. Um, you can follow us on Instagram, which would be at. [00:43:10] And then it's dwellings, but with no vowels. So [00:43:15] D-W-L-L-N-G-S. Um, so yeah, check us out there. We'd love to connect with you. Um, you can get [00:43:20] on the email list and um, yeah, that would be how we'd love to connect with anyone.
Jeremy Pryor: [00:43:25] Very good. Well, so encouraged by what you and Catherine and the rest of the team are doing at Dwellings.
And thank you so much [00:43:30] for jumping on the podcast and talking to me about this today.
Sarah Wood: Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thankful for your [00:43:35] work too. Thanks. [00:43:40] [00:43:45] [00:43:50] [00:43:55] [00:44:00] [00:44:05] [00:44:10] [00:44:15] [00:44:20] [00:44:25] [00:44:30] [00:44:35]
