Singleness Has Quadrupled: Here's What The Church Is Missing

November 01, 2026

100 years ago, the average person had 5 years of adult singleness. Today? It's 19.

Chris pastors City Church in Cincinnati, and he's been quietly wrestling with something most churches won't touch: what do we actually do with singleness?

Not the "just wait for marriage" platitude, but the real, lived experience of people in their 30s, 40s, and beyond who feel like second-class citizens in their own church.

In this episode we get into the hierarchy between married and single people, what to say (and not say) to singles who want to be married, and whether the church is a hospital for broken people or a training camp for the next generation - or somehow both.

In this episode, we talk about:

0:00 Singleness In The Church

4:05 Why Is This Conversation Changing?

7:42 How City Church Welcomes Singles

11:39 "Do You Feel Called To Singleness?"

16:52 The Middle Problem

28:46 Why We Need To Pursue The Ideal At Home

36:31 Single Parents

46:47 Did Jesus Usher In A New Kind Of Family?

56:41 Singles' Message To Families

1:02:19 Should Singles Live Alone?

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Episode Transcript

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: [00:00:01] this was statistically true 100 years ago. The average person was hitting [00:00:06] puberty at 14 years old and getting married at 19 years old.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So the [00:00:11] average person had five years of singleness.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Today 11 [00:00:16] is now the average time that a kid is hitting puberty, and the average age that a [00:00:21] person is getting married is 29 and a half.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So adult singleness [00:00:26] 100 years ago was five years. Now it's about [00:00:31] 19.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: We have quadrupled the length of adult singleness,

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: which means what used to just [00:00:36] be kind of a blip in the radar of your life is now, for the average person, [00:00:41] 19 years of their life.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So it feels increasingly important that [00:00:46] churches, know how to talk about this.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Hey [00:00:51] everybody, welcome back to the podcast.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I am so excited to be joined today by my good friend [00:00:56] Chris Marlin. Chris, thanks for jumping on here

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: It's an an honor. Thanks for having me. Yeah, man. So [00:01:01] Chris is, uh, the pastor of City Church Over the Rhine, a [00:01:06] amazing, uh, kinda newer church in the Cincinnati area that, um, I've been plugged into various [00:01:11] ways, and lots and lots of our friends and people in the larger 1000 Houses community in Cincinnati are [00:01:16] engaged with.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so I've gotten to know Chris. We've gotten to do a season of discipleship. We've kinda dove into [00:01:21] lots of, uh, fun, interesting conversations. And today, Chris and I are gonna talk about singleness in the [00:01:26] church, and why we thought this might be a really interesting conversation is we might come at [00:01:31] this from different perspectives.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So Right ... share a little bit about your perspective. Like, [00:01:36] why, why is this topic s- like, how has this stirred, stirred up for you, and y- yeah, what, what, [00:01:41] why have you been thinking about this? Yeah. Um, I it, it is, it's [00:01:46] strange. I'm strangely passionate about this, even though I got married pretty young. Got married [00:01:51] when I was 23, and I think that's even worth calling out.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: We are two married men- Yes ... [00:01:56] that have not been single in quite some time talking about singleness. Yeah. But, uh, which does mean we [00:02:01] get to talk about it purely objectively, but also obviously we're not in it. Uh, [00:02:06] okay, I had a friend in college, a- I mean, really even after college, but [00:02:11] talking about, you know, and he's, he's feeling like he's supposed to lay his sexuality down.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: He's supposed [00:02:16] to lay down this, this, um, this thought of marriage in the future, and how [00:02:21] poor often churches have done at making that a, uh... [00:02:26] In some ways, we specifically, if we, we say it's a gift or, uh, if [00:02:31] we're holding an orthodox view of sexuality, then we're calling some people to celibacy, or whatever [00:02:36] that is, but then we don't make it a flourishing, vivid, [00:02:41] beautiful way of living.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, you're called to that, but we are going to focus on family [00:02:46] and having kids and making sure that those people are cared for, but you're [00:02:51] still supposed to be single. A- I think we've done a disservice, and I got passionate about it in my [00:02:56] 20s, um, of like, oh, we don't make this seem like a flourishing way [00:03:01] of life.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Mm. And so, uh, I sort of feel like I've taken up the mantle, [00:03:06] again, got married early, of like I wanna make sure whatever community I'm a part of, so [00:03:11] right now it's this church in downtown Cincinnati, are we making singleness not just [00:03:16] a potential holding ground or necessary form of life for some people, but [00:03:21] is it actually a way of flourishing in the church?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So I, uh, it started in [00:03:26] college, carried my 20s, but now I'm just like, wow, this actually is increasingly, I think, [00:03:31] a, uh, a concern or something that needs to be dealt with in the church because [00:03:36] people are single. Everybody starts off single. Not everybody ends up married, and so this is a season of life [00:03:41] that everyone will go through for some period of time.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. I think there's very few [00:03:46] more relevant topics, and something is, is also- happening [00:03:51] biologically, culturally to us that seems like it's creating this as [00:03:56] a much more, like it's framing this conversation differently than maybe you would have [00:04:01] framed this in the 1950s or the 1850s . So- Totally

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: talk a little bit about that. [00:04:06] What, what is happening culturally and even maybe biologically to us that [00:04:11] is maybe changing or reframing the way that a local church might think about this topic? [00:04:16] Yeah. Um, this- we've done this a couple times at our church where we've done almost like a [00:04:21] two-part series on marriage and then singleness.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But I've always had a single [00:04:26] person preach on marriage and a married- I've usually done the, the topic on singleness. [00:04:31] And so anyway, I was preparing for it, uh, probably eight years ago, um, back when I was a [00:04:36] pastor in Las Vegas, and I was getting ready for this sermon, and I found, uh, this stat. This is [00:04:41] actually mind-blowing to me.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So, um, this was statistically true 100 [00:04:46] years ago. The average person was hitting puberty at 14 years old and [00:04:51] getting married at 19 years old. And so, you know, puberty meaning like, "Oh, I'm, I'm an [00:04:56] adult now." So about the average person had five years of singleness. Now that's average. [00:05:01] Some people had more, some people had less.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Average person was single as an adult for five years. [00:05:06] Today- And this is beyond my pay grade. We're hitting puberty earlier. [00:05:11] Uh, that wasn't my story. I actually hit it later. But 11 is now the average time [00:05:16] that a kid is hitting puberty, and the average, uh, age that a person is getting [00:05:21] married is 29 and a half.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So adult singleness 100 years [00:05:26] ago was five years. Now it's, uh, about 19. [00:05:31] So we have quadrupled the, the, uh, the length of adult [00:05:36] singleness, which means also what used to just be kind of a blip in the radar of your life is now, [00:05:41] for the average person, 19 years of their life. And then, of course, there are [00:05:46] people that never get married or got married early and then got divorced or widowed or whatever and [00:05:51] end up living a second kind of iteration of singleness.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So it feels increasingly [00:05:56] important that churches, communities of faith know how to talk about this. Yeah. [00:06:01] Man. So there's sort, sort of like a couple realities that you're saying we [00:06:06] gotta, we gotta kind of just face a reality. Singleness culturally is now [00:06:11] four times as long, uh, for most people than it has been at other times in, [00:06:16] in history.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And there's this process of people, you know, [00:06:21] becoming single. So this is c- c-aus- I, I know that, you know, in a lot of cities, I don't... Do you [00:06:26] have any idea kind of the percentage of married versus singles in general in, in culture? [00:06:31] Or I don't know if you've ever looked at this up in Cincinnati, uh, or downtown.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I, I'm curious what, [00:06:36] or what's your intuition for how that's shifted? 'Cause it seems like, uh, there are a lot of cities that are, [00:06:41] for the first time in, like, their history, going majority single. [00:06:46] Mm-hmm. Well, I, uh, I don't have, I don't have any Cincinnati stats. [00:06:51] When, when I was preparing for this, I also found 48% of Americans are single, [00:06:56] so- Okay, America. Wow ... if, if the average church reflects the average, you know- [00:07:01] Uh, then it would be about half the church- Okay ... is single. So- Wow ... yeah, I mean, that's- [00:07:06] That's very- And, and certainly in our church, especially early on, I mean, we're six years old [00:07:11] now, I would say that it was the majority of our church until recently, where we're [00:07:16] probably more like 50/50.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Okay. All right, so, so this is happening to a lot [00:07:21] of churches. It's happening culture-wide, and part of what you're... And this is, I think, what it would be [00:07:26] interesting to, like, to dive into, the role of the church being a prophetic [00:07:31] witness versus being a hospital for what is real and r- what's really happening to people.[00:07:36]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, this is where I f- I find the conversation around singleness kind of challenging. [00:07:41] So, uh, maybe, uh, you frame how, like, when, when a single person comes, let's say [00:07:46] they're, they're a 30-year-old single person coming to City Church, how would you [00:07:51] frame that, um, sort of that state? Like, how would you want your church [00:07:56] to talk about welcome them, and then I'd love to, like, yeah, talk through kind of how I, [00:08:01] I'm, how I wrestle with this topic with somebody who's at that stage of their life and, [00:08:06] um, yeah, living, uh, uh, living a single lifestyle.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. [00:08:11] Well, and I think even giving an example of 30 years old is probably helpful. Um, 'cause I [00:08:16] do think it's different to be 23 and single- Yeah ... versus 35 and [00:08:21] single or, and, and even, you know, 60 and single. But I, yeah, I think where I get [00:08:26] really passionate is those middle years, so let's call it, yeah, 30 to 30 to 50, where it's [00:08:31] you've been single for the majority of your adult life, not like, you know, I was single [00:08:36] from the age of 15 to 23.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, that's relatively normal. I, I [00:08:41] really hope... I think, um, we always talk about, like, the, the [00:08:46] extremes on either side, and we address those, and pretty much everybody that's [00:08:51] rational is like, "Yeah, I'm not there, I'm not there." I don't think many churches are coming in and saying, "You [00:08:56] are a lesser adult," um, or, "Your [00:09:01] next step in discipleship should be getting married."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I don't think many churches are saying that, [00:09:06] and if they are, God bless them, but that just feels woefully un-Biblical. [00:09:11] Mm. So I think that's, like, low-hanging fruit, a straw man of like, oh, let's talk about that. I don't think many [00:09:16] people are saying that. But there is this intrinsic feeling or this, uh, and this is coming [00:09:21] from single friends, not just what I would imagine, that are like, "I do [00:09:26] feel either like I'm behind or there's something [00:09:31] that I'm supposed to do until I can be equal with the 35-year-old that is married."[00:09:36]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so what I hope is true in our church is we don't, we don't [00:09:41] even get buy-in to this intrinsic hierarchy of, okay, we're both 35 [00:09:46] and but I'm married and I got kids, so I'm kinda two steps ahead of the 35-year-old that's single. [00:09:51] And I think culture in some ways has done that, especially maybe evangelical culture, has made it [00:09:56] feel like, okay, but I am probably further along in my journey with Jesus just because, you know, I've got the [00:10:01] refining, you know, spouse.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I've got this refining relationship of marriage and my kids, which is [00:10:06] true. My kids make me more like Jesus. But I also know [00:10:11] struggling makes you more like Jesus. We went through a five-year battle of infertility, [00:10:16] and, uh, what was not helpful is people saying, "Man, when you have kids, you're [00:10:21] gonna understand the love of the Father."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I'm like, "That's probably true. [00:10:26] But not getting what I want is also helping me understand [00:10:31] the love of the Father." And so I think seeing that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, [00:10:36] is more sovereign and smart than we're aware of, and he can work in singleness, [00:10:41] marriage, kids, no kids, infertility, fertility, all of those things in between.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So I hope we don't [00:10:46] create a culture, just this intrinsic culture of if I'm married, 'cause I [00:10:51] do think it starts with the married and the families. We have to undo some of the cultural [00:10:56] narratives that I think we, people step in with. I hope people don't feel, "I am behind- [00:11:01] Or there is a level of maturity that I have not attained yet [00:11:06] because I'm not married.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think, I think that's fair. So I think you're saying, [00:11:11] look, uh, there... This situation, uh, that a single person's in [00:11:16] and a situation with a married person in, they, they all have pros and cons, and to [00:11:21] constantly compare the pros of marriage to the cons of singleness is sort of [00:11:26] like a constant maybe, um, uh, something that the church can easily find [00:11:31] itself stuck in, where this is, this is how we're framing the conversation instead of like, no, there are, [00:11:36] there's just very different kinds of challenges.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I, I think what I'm trying to... And this is, this is where I, I... This is a [00:11:41] question I'm constantly wrestling with when I'm... If I meet, like, a 27-year-old single person, I think one of the [00:11:46] first questions I want to ask is do, like- Do you [00:11:51] feel called to singleness or do you feel called to [00:11:56] marriage? And the way I talk about singleness, depending on which of those they tell me, [00:12:01] I know it's a very, you know, personal question, but, but when we're in [00:12:06] a good relationship, a- an ongoing, you know, relationship with a single person at that [00:12:11] stage in their life, I find it really important to f- to understand the answer [00:12:16] to that because how I would frame a lot of the questions that we're gonna dive [00:12:21] into as we c- c- this conversation goes, I would frame differently depending on how they answer that question.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. So I'm [00:12:26] curious how you, like, do, do you, do you think there's a distinction there? Do you think that somebody who says [00:12:31] at 27, "I feel called to be single," you know, maybe [00:12:36] right now and maybe for the rest of my life, versus somebody who's like, "I know I'm built [00:12:41] to be married, and I don't know why it's so hard to find the, the, the pers-" whatever.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, those are [00:12:46] such different experiences, and so that's where I, I think, I think my intuitions or m- the way [00:12:51] that I approach this topic is really trying to discern what's going on between those [00:12:56] two, and then also going a layer deeper into each of those answers. Like when I-- when somebody [00:13:01] says, "I'm 27 and I'm celebrating my singleness," I have questions.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And when [00:13:06] somebody says, "I'm 27 and I really feel like I wanna be married," I got questions. So it's not like that's the [00:13:11] end of the conversation. We can go deeper. But I d- yeah, what are your thoughts about, is that a, is that a pretty [00:13:16] important relevant question? Would you frame it differently depending on what you got as a response to that kind of question?[00:13:21]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. It's a great question. I, I'd actually love to also hear, yeah, how do you [00:13:26] distinguish between those two? Where do you go? Because I'm fascinated. I-- [00:13:31] Look, you're a thinker. I, uh, so even getting on a podcast with you, I'm like, oh [00:13:36] gosh, I'm gonna just get... Not that we're arguing, we're not arguing. But if we- Yeah

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: were to argue, I'd get [00:13:41] destroyed. So I'm like, oh, it's so interesting that that's, you think about like, oh, this is how I'm gonna [00:13:46] navigate that. In my mind, and this is something I want to get better at, I'm like, I don't [00:13:51] know if it matters. Here's what I know. At this little church that I'm a part of, [00:13:56] I wanna make sure that regardless, they feel, um, [00:14:01] affirmed and challenged, not like, "Hey, you don't have a spouse to make you better."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, that's one of the things you miss when you're [00:14:06] single. There's not this incredibly, uh, proximate relationship that makes [00:14:11] you look more like Jesus. And so it's not just like, "Let me comfort you if you wanna be married and you're [00:14:16] single." It's also like, who's, who's challenging you? Like, who gets to be that voice?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Because, [00:14:21] you know, not if, if you're not going home to someone, then, uh, you're missing out [00:14:26] on that. So that's one thing I wanna get better at. I would love to hear how you answer. I do think it [00:14:31] changes how I would engage with them or have a conversation with them [00:14:36] because, and this is probably more of my friends, and I've- I've did my [00:14:41] own little pre-interviews before this 'cause I'm like, "I don't wanna come in and talk about singleness," 'cause I haven't been [00:14:46] single in 14 years.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But hearing from other people, most of the people [00:14:51] I talk to are like, "I wish I was married." And, and you said that, you [00:14:56] know, I feel called to be married. Maybe that's the, the language, but they want to be [00:15:01] married. And so I know the only-- the best thing I have to illustrate that is I [00:15:06] wanted kids, and there was nothing that was working that could give us kids for that [00:15:11] five-year period of time.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And it's like, man, I know what it was like to, to [00:15:16] long for something that you wanted To then search the scriptures and be like, "Oh [00:15:21] gosh, the Bible does not promise me kids, nor does the Bible promise me marriage. [00:15:26] And so how do I become like Jesus and mourn with those who mourn?" Um, and [00:15:31] also make sure that they know, 'cause I really authentically believe this, there is [00:15:36] a flourishing, wonderful, incredible life in your singleness, be it if it's for one more year [00:15:41] or the rest of your life.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Versus the person that feels called to singleness, um, or is like, "I actually [00:15:46] want to be this," then I think, and maybe this is what you were even leading to, [00:15:51] I'm like, "That's amazing." Like, have you read, you know, and everybody goes to 1 Corinthians 7. Have you [00:15:56] read it? Like, do you know, understand, like, the benefits that you have here?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: The kingdom's gonna benefit from this. This is gonna be [00:16:01] amazing. Yeah, go live in, you know, Mozambique or go travel around the US preaching at [00:16:06] college campuses. You can do whatever you want. And the, maybe the flip side of that is I'm like, [00:16:11] and who's making sure, like, who's calling you out [00:16:16] for your stuff?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like- Yeah ... are you called to singleness? Or I think [00:16:21] at times it's like, no, I'm wanting to be single because I don't want the friction of [00:16:26] sanctification. I don't want that proximity anywhere near me. And so I would [00:16:31] mostly be excited for the person that's called to singleness, and it would probably trigger me, especially if it's a guy.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, [00:16:36] so who's, who's calling you out on stuff? Who has, who has full [00:16:41] access to your life, um, in every sense of the word? Because now you're [00:16:46] gonna miss out on that for the rest of your life, that really sanctifying relationship. Yeah. [00:16:51] Yeah, I think that's good. I, a- and I, I think, I think that a lot of the [00:16:56] way I've thought about this topic is there's this sort of middle [00:17:01] category that I, I c- I think I have the most questions about.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So I have no problem with [00:17:06] I'm called to singleness, and I feel like the Lord has given me this gift, and [00:17:11] just like 1 Corinthians 7 says, this means I can give myself full- wholeheartedly to the Lord. I think [00:17:16] that should be celebrated. That should be like, that, that... There's something really special about that, right?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And, [00:17:21] um, and it seems like he even sort of begins 1 Corinthians 7 by framing this as a gift. [00:17:26] He says, you know, "Look, people have different kinds of gifts. For some people, they have this kind of gift and that kind of gift." And then he [00:17:31] gets into this marriage/singleness conversation. And so it sounds like he's saying the gift-- [00:17:36] marriage is a gift.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Singleness is a gift. Um, and so I believe in that. I believe deeply that singleness [00:17:41] is and is designed in the way it's described in 1 Corinthians 7 as a gift. I think [00:17:46] marriage is a gift. I think that the, the question I have is what do you do with the person who [00:17:51] is called to be married, but there's a reason why they're not yet married.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I think that, [00:17:56] that, the intuition around that is is that the gift of singleness? Like, is that something they should celebrate [00:18:01] as a gift? Or is the fact that the s- the stats that you, [00:18:06] you know, began the podcast by describing, which is that we've... Something has happened to the culture [00:18:11] that has made, you know, just pairing up far more difficult, and it's getting [00:18:16] worse.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: You know, we can get into the details of what happened, um, but I think that part of what I [00:18:21] am concerned about is, um, it seems like there should be a [00:18:26] difference between celebrating the person with the gift of singl- singleness and how we talk about that, and how we should [00:18:31] not make that person feel less than or anything like that, and what we should say to somebody [00:18:36] who is struggling finding this person to marry.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, and they [00:18:41] believe that they are called to be married. They don't, they, they, they have a, this deep desire, and there's [00:18:46] all these obstacles that have now been placed in their path, often because [00:18:51] of the way our culture has shifted in this area. And I think a lot of that has been [00:18:56] sin. Like, I think a lot of the shift has been created by [00:19:01] the fact that we have culturally embraced, you know, premarital s*x, and so this thing [00:19:06] that drove people into marriage no longer does.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: P*rnography, this thing that, you [00:19:11] know, did not exist like it does today, where, you know, particularly men with a [00:19:16] very strong s*x drive, they decide, "I I can satisfy this need, and I have been [00:19:21] since I was 13 years old," you know, through p*rnography addictions. This is making them less [00:19:26] and less, um, desiring marriage.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And Paul, you know, directly says that the desire [00:19:31] for s*x really is a part of what is positively [00:19:36] moving men and women towards marriage. Um, so that has been deeply impacted [00:19:41] by technology. Um, and so you have other technologies. You have, you know, oftentimes birth [00:19:46] control, women going on birth control at a very early age, oftentimes to regulate their [00:19:51] menstrual cycle, and now we're discovering this deeply impacts the way they [00:19:56] even find men attractive.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, and so we, we, we're adopting all [00:20:01] these technologies that take 10, 20, 30, 40 years to really understand the impact it's [00:20:06] having on the culture. And now we're looking at this culture saying... And then I would say that the biggest one, the one [00:20:11] that really concerns me for the church, is I would say a culture of [00:20:16] narcissism, which says, "You know, you shouldn't get married primarily because it's gonna [00:20:21] cause you to not become your best self.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I know that you really wanna have s*x, you really wanna, [00:20:26] you know, find love, you really feel called to it, but you [00:20:31] really need to understand that you need to come first. You need to fully find yourself. You need to com- [00:20:36] be a complete person. And when you're in your early 30s, that's actually the ideal time [00:20:41] to engage in a marriage, because now you don't run the risk of marrying [00:20:46] somebody in your early 20s and then discovering who you are, who they are, and you realize you made some giant [00:20:51] mistake."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, that, that is a whole framing of marriage that is very, very [00:20:56] new, and that I think a lot of people today in the church, a lot of singles, are [00:21:01] impacted by. And they, they are being impacted by it for, you know, both good and bad reasons. [00:21:06] Good reasons being, um, marriage is d- more difficult in some ways [00:21:11] today.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: B- you know, there, there is a reality that people are getting less support from their [00:21:16] parents, and there's less cultural sort of Uh, like there's less [00:21:21] sort of cultural, uh, ideas around what makes a good marriage, and so this, this [00:21:26] increase in like fight for yourself, um, you know, make sure that in this marriage [00:21:31] you're, you're negotiating, you know, against each other constantly.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, if [00:21:36] that's going to happen, then it is really tough to get married young, right? And so I think, I think [00:21:41] this... I think what I'm, I'm really struggling with here is the culture has, has taken so many, [00:21:46] uh, like left turns, and now I- I'm like as the church [00:21:51] th- there is this... There's almost like the, these different ways of thinking about our calling [00:21:56] as, as, as a local church in particular.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: One is like some of us have to [00:22:01] really engage the culture where it's at and say, "Okay." Yeah. Culture's taken, you know, 10 left [00:22:06] turns and has really hurt a lot of people, but if we start way [00:22:11] over here, um, and try to hold the ideal, [00:22:16] we're not gonna be able to reach anybody, and so there's like we gotta, we gotta sort of somehow bring our [00:22:21] messaging closer to where the culture's actually at.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, I have a lot of like [00:22:26] empathy for that position. I think that's a really, uh, that's a specific calling I think on some [00:22:31] specific churches, and I would say there's also a prophetic witness, [00:22:36] uh, that, that some churches have to the culture in saying, "Hey, guys. [00:22:41] We didn't take any of those left turns, and we actually want to represent [00:22:46] a, um, what godliness could look like across the entire [00:22:51] culture," where the average marital, marital age in our church is, you know, [00:22:56] still in, you know, 22, 23 years old.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: You know, that's average. Um, [00:23:01] and you know, I... This is, this is kinda how I struggle with, with like these two worlds, how [00:23:06] to, how to engage with these, uh, cultural challenges and how to be a [00:23:11] prophetic witness, and maybe these... I, I think the question we're sort of posing is are these just [00:23:16] different, uh, callings, you know, that different, different churches have?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: [00:23:21] Um, that's, that's what I'm wondering. Yeah. Man. [00:23:26] 'Cause I'm like, oh, I I, I love talking to you because [00:23:31] I feel like we live-- we, we align on so many of the big things. We live in those [00:23:36] two different worlds. I'm like- Right ... uh, man, solving that culture problem, that's your job. [00:23:41] I'm just trying to like lead this little church, and, uh, in light of what [00:23:46] culture has given us- Yeah

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: uh, I'm like, "Okay, how do we respond?" Because I'm [00:23:51] in no way thinking, uh, how do we get back to, [00:23:56] you know, that Edenic, you know, perfection, utopia. I'm like, it's coming, but it's, [00:24:01] it's coming when He comes back. So, uh, and that, that is just like, [00:24:06] you know, I'm, I'm 37, so I just imagine by the time I'm 38, I'll be dealing with like [00:24:11] world-level problems, but I'm just down here trying to lead a local church faithfully.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So to that [00:24:16] point, um, when I hear you say that, I'm like, wow. I think-- the Church is a [00:24:21] prophetic witness, and this church, City Church, is a [00:24:26] prophetic witness in so many ways. I think where I come, uh, become [00:24:31] passionate is dealing with what we've been given. So a lot of my [00:24:36] experience or, uh, yeah, a lot of my experience or maybe interviews or talking to people has [00:24:41] come either from the, the same-sex attractor to the gay community, so had a lot of [00:24:46] experience with that in the last 15 years, where it's like, wow, I'm convicted that the Bible teaches me this, but [00:24:51] I can't do that.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So how do I engage in the Church that seems to be at times obsessed with [00:24:56] family? And then the other one is, that I'm probably even seeing more often now, [00:25:01] is singleness deep into their 30s or 40s, specifically of women. [00:25:06] Because now the hand that we've been dealt, probably [00:25:11] from poor discipleship 20 years ago, is that there's way more women following Jesus than there [00:25:16] are men.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so in some ways it's like, well, can't really fix this problem. [00:25:21] Uh, or a, a mo- a revival, an awakening of men, but even then [00:25:26] it's like, wow, you got all these converts of men and these women that have been walking with Jesus for 38 years. What do you [00:25:31] do with that? That's the problem that I think I'm seeing now, where it's like, what do they do, and how do [00:25:36] we create a, a church or a community that validates them?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: [00:25:41] Because their choices seem to be, and this is where I'm like, I don't know if they're called to singleness or not. Is that a [00:25:46] call? Like, it doesn't feel like they're called to singleness, but it feels like their options are either [00:25:51] marry a non-Christian or they're going to be single, because that's what [00:25:56] culture has dealt them from 20, 30 years ago of poor [00:26:01] discipleship of men and Yeah.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And, and now I wonder what we're gonna see in 20 more years, [00:26:06] 15 more years, because it seems like more Gen Z men are coming to Christ and more Gen [00:26:11] Z women are walking away. So I wonder, are we gonna have the same problem reversed? I, [00:26:16] but I am fascinated by what, what led to this, and but I am [00:26:21] also like, this is the hand we've been dealt.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: How does the church... And this, this [00:26:26] is coming from a conviction like, and, and there's all kind- so much scripture on marriage. [00:26:31] But Jesus and Paul, and this is low-hanging fru- they were single. Jesus, I [00:26:36] mean, Paul does this great teaching in 1 Corinthians 7 about like there's a real gift to [00:26:41] singleness, like a literal gift, um, which you talked about.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I heard a lot of people that [00:26:46] are single say like, "What's the exchange policy on this gift?" Like, can I turn it back in? [00:26:51] Um, but it is a gi- like it does seem to be a gift. And then I wonder if there is this middle [00:26:56] ground like you're talking about of this is a result of me living [00:27:01] in a fallen world where I actually wish I was married, but I would have [00:27:06] to forsake other things in order to get married, like marry somebody that's [00:27:11] not following Jesus.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so it seems like single life with Jesus is better than being married to someone who's not [00:27:16] following Jesus, which I totally agree with. And I think that's the, that's the community I'm [00:27:21] most concerned or passionate about of like, okay, well then how do we [00:27:26] comfort, how do we create, how do we as families create a culture [00:27:31] that, um, affirms them?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Not affirms them as in like, "Yeah, you do you." Like that is [00:27:36] so not it, but affirms them of like, wow, we recognize that this is not where you'd like to [00:27:41] be. This is where you are because of biblical conviction based on one thing or another, [00:27:46] and how do we make sure that, that discipleship and formation to Jesus is [00:27:51] still available, valid?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: We're not just, you know, I'm trying to not use [00:27:56] my kids as every sermon illustration. Like even little practical things that we can do to make sure, oh, this is a place [00:28:01] that is for the single and the married, and those that are single but wanna be married, and those that [00:28:06] are single and never wanna get married, um, and everything in between.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, that's good. [00:28:11] I, yeah, that, that's the group that I, I find myself too just really... I, I think that They're [00:28:16] living through a very unusual set of [00:28:21] challenges, and that, um, the last thing they wanna hear is somebody who's [00:28:26] very steeped in the challenges and, and situations, realities of 30 years ago [00:28:31] tell them from that perspective, "Oh, this is easy.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, I don't know why you [00:28:36] can't just find the right person, just get married," um, without acknowledging [00:28:41] that, The enemy's done something to make this much more difficult, right? So that's what you're saying. Like, we gotta be aware [00:28:46] that that's happened. Um, you know, th- so I would say that there's also another group of people [00:28:51] that I'm very sensitive to, um, because I have five kids, and that is that, [00:28:56] like wh-when you describe, like, um, the ideal or the Edenic reality, one of the realities [00:29:01] is when you're raising children in a, in a home where you're trying to pursue the Lord, [00:29:06] you need to reflect to th-those children what just normal, [00:29:11] godly life looks like, right?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so they're being steeped in this [00:29:16] culture as well, and you're trying to say, "Hey, I think we should, in our family, make it normative [00:29:21] to have kids, to, to get married early, and maybe to have kids right away," or, like, things that are just very [00:29:26] unusual culturally. Because there are realities that a [00:29:31] Gen One person is gonna have to deal with that we should all be very empathetic towards and, and be [00:29:36] really trying to do everything we can as a, as a spiritual family to help.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And what it [00:29:41] looks like to be a Gen Two kid in a Christian family where you [00:29:46] are attempting not to just hit the reset button and say, "Let, let's just enter in the culture, [00:29:51] uh, absorb all of the brokenness that exists in [00:29:56] 2026, and assume that we're gonna have to recover in the same way that somebody who was raised in a non-Christian family [00:30:01] would, for example, have to recover or have to deal with."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so I think, I think that group as well- [00:30:06] Um, when you're s- when you're teaching in a, in a church setting, um, [00:30:11] if you don't lift up the ideal, like, "Hey, guys, this is, this is how God designed it," and that's kinda the way [00:30:16] I think about it, is there's, there's a God-given design, and oftentimes saying anything [00:30:21] about the, um, original design is always going to [00:30:26] elicit, um, uh, the risk, the, at least it's gonna risk eliciting, [00:30:31] um, people f- getting frustrated, you know.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So you c- you, you could say this about, you know, orthodox [00:30:36] sexuality like we were talking about earlier. Just saying, "Hey, God designed men and women to get [00:30:41] married, not men and men or women and women, that s*x is designed for a covenant [00:30:46] relationship," saying that is extremely offensive to the culture [00:30:51] and can be really hard on somebody who is, you know, not experiencing [00:30:56] that in, in that way.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so there's always this, like, tension, and I think the, the exact same tension [00:31:01] exists in this area, where, I mean, is it possible to say [00:31:06] to a church full of singles, "Hey, guys, the ideal is for [00:31:11] you to all get married young." Like, that's what I would l- For those of you guys who are [00:31:16] 14 in, in this room right now being raised by godly parents, I would, I would [00:31:21] hope that it would be normal for you, you know, for these younger families, [00:31:26] for you guys to be raising your kids to get married early, um, and to have kids right away.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, I [00:31:31] would say something like that. Then th- I know this makes me in, like, the 1%. Yeah. And this [00:31:36] is why- Yeah. That's why you're not- ... I'm not gonna serve church music ... preaching at my church. That's right. I'm just kidding. But, but I mean, like, like, I, [00:31:41] I, I wonder about, like, it's how do we recover... Like, [00:31:46] c- can we have both conversations at the same time?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Can we say, "Here's, here's, here's God's design," [00:31:51] and I'm not trying to make anybody feel bad, and here's the reality of what sin's done, and, like, [00:31:56] and now how do we deal with, you know, the reality of what sin's done? Like, c- [00:32:01] can we, can we say all that at o- in the same time, or, or do we risk something, like, um, do we [00:32:06] risk something that's, that's inappropriate to particularly the singles who are struggling in our [00:32:11] churches if we say that?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. Um, [00:32:16] that's a, yeah, great question. I love that we didn't, like, actually map this out [00:32:21] beforehand, just for the millions watching right now. We didn't. Yeah. 'Cause I'm like, "Oh, I want to [00:32:26] think about that," and I don't have an immediate answer. Even right now, I'm like, "I don't know if [00:32:31] I believe that's the ideal."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Yeah. And that's probably some of where we would [00:32:36] disagree, but I don't even know if I disagree, 'cause I'm like, you know, when I think about my kids growing up, I'm like, "Yes, I [00:32:41] imagine they're going to get married," and I want... Yeah. Oh, I do want them to get... I mean, I even find [00:32:46] that I do want them to get married.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Is it a selfish thing? Like, give me grandkids? 'Cause that's super [00:32:51] hurtful, uh, when, you know, that's put on your single or married [00:32:56] kids. Um, man, there's a ton of advantages to getting married early, [00:33:01] uh, which I have experienced, and I see some advantages to getting married [00:33:06] later, so I'm just, you know, internally processing on your podcast here.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I, [00:33:11] what, you're asking that question and I'm like, I- I think we, [00:33:16] you said, you know, can we say it and then not get hurt? I think we ha- I think we, the [00:33:21] church, that, that does, that is hurtful. Um, or it ha- it has hurt [00:33:26] them, and so I'm sure it is possible, but man, it takes a long-formed nuance. [00:33:31] It's not, it's not a part of a sermon.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: It's not a sermon. It's a sermon series. Like- Mm-hmm ... that's the way [00:33:36] I'm thinking about that because it needs to be a long conversation of, "Hey, [00:33:41] this is the ideal." 'Cause immediately if you're not in the ideal, then you feel less than. [00:33:46] Now, should they feel less than? Uh, should I feel less than when, uh, it said, you know, [00:33:51] anybody six feet or over is usually a CEO.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: It's like, oh, I feel less than. I am no- [00:33:56] not even close to six foot. Yeah. Um, it's like, no, they didn't, you didn't say I'm less [00:34:01] than, but it is hard to hear if I'm not the ideal, then what am I? Am I less than? [00:34:06] And I do know th- there are some differences between, let's call it the, the [00:34:11] sexuality conversation and then just the actual singleness.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Right. I know that [00:34:16] when we say as the church that, uh, marriage is between a man and a woman, [00:34:21] immediately if you're attracted to the same s*x, be- uh, that's not like a, um... [00:34:26] That's not just, oh, something ideal. That is core to my identity. My sexuality is core to [00:34:31] my identity in a way that, um, you know, I deal with impatience [00:34:36] and anger, and it's like, wow, impatience is a sin.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Anger is a sin. But those are [00:34:41] not core to my identity. I don't, I don't go to sleep at night thinking usually, [00:34:46] like, "Wow, you're just like angry," because that's something I struggle with, and I think [00:34:51] sexuality is different. Um, there's sexual sin, but [00:34:56] sexuality is still very core to our identity. So we have to do a lot more conversation and nuance [00:35:01] and biblical work to say like, hey, just because we're...

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I'm not even saying I think [00:35:06] this is the ideal, but let's say if we were to say it is ideal to get married young and have a, a lot of [00:35:11] kids. I've got to do a lot of work to make sure, and if you're not married young or if you're not having kids, [00:35:16] how do I make sure you know that you're not less than?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I'm passionate about that. Those are good questions I wanna think about. [00:35:21] I just wanna make sure- If you're not getting [00:35:26] married, um, early or at all that you don't feel, because [00:35:31] I have a strong conviction that it is not the next step in your discipleship. It [00:35:36] seems like even Jesus, and I don't know what you think about this, we, um, I think it's Matthew 12, [00:35:41] when Jesus is talking about eunuchs and, uh, and he said, you know, some are born [00:35:46] eunuchs, some were made eunuchs.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: 19. Yep. And then Matthew 19. [00:35:51] Um, and then some, uh, choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom [00:35:56] of God. And at the very least he's talking about singleness. You're choosing to [00:36:01] live like a eunuch. But even some people are like, I think he's talking to the same s*x attracted community there, [00:36:06] homosexual community.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And it's like, wow, Je- like that's a rabbit trail. But [00:36:11] Jesus even seems to affirm some level of like, I'm choosing [00:36:16] to not get married. Right. Uh- Announce, re- renouncing marriage, he's, yeah. Like, like [00:36:21] becoming a eu- I know that's kind of a odd, uh, word, but yeah, I agree. [00:36:26] I, I, I do think- Yeah ... he's, he's talking about a decision that people make.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, yeah, that's good. [00:36:31] So- Yeah, an- another example where this, this, I think parallels [00:36:36] the tension between the ideal and what could be hurtful is, uh, [00:36:41] talking to single, uh, parents. So this is one that I deal with all the time. Mm-hmm. [00:36:46] Everywhere we go, um, you know, if we're doing a, a kind of a workshop [00:36:51] or, you know, on, on family, there's gonna be single parents in the [00:36:56] room, and we're gonna be talking a lot about the role of mother and the role of father, and man, is it [00:37:01] tough to sit there, uh, as a single parent and just listen to any, [00:37:06] uh, just depiction of whatever you're going to lack in [00:37:11] that.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Okay, you just said, "This is what the father does in the family. This is how God designed fatherhood. This is what we see in [00:37:16] scripture. This is what motherhood looks like." And, and I've been told by pastors, "Look, I- we literally [00:37:21] cannot have you teach about family because there are so many single parents, [00:37:26] and they will, um, feel less than."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, and so particularly if [00:37:31] you start to directly address the roles as scripture [00:37:36] does, um, of the father and mother in the home and what it says. And so these are [00:37:41] often very unexplored, uh, topics because it can, and it does, create... I mean, [00:37:46] America now, we just passed Sweden to become the number one country in the world in single-parent homes.[00:37:51]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, and so w- this is, uh, we are living kind of in the [00:37:56] place where that, that... You know, and, and so is that characterized as, as something that's [00:38:01] broken? Is, is, like, when somebody, whether they be a mom or a dad, [00:38:06] is trying to raise kids without, uh, the, the other [00:38:11] spouse, is that the ideal? Um, and I would say no, [00:38:16] that's not the ideal.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, ev- you know, whether they died or there was a divorce, whatever happened [00:38:21] there, um, you're raising your kids in a way where this is going to [00:38:26] be a challenge for your family, and the, and the church needs to really find ways to step up and help that [00:38:31] single parent. Um, there, there is, there is a chicken and the egg problem that I, I [00:38:36] think is really difficult in these conversations, and that is when you do not [00:38:41] point out the ideal design, then you do [00:38:46] risk, uh, creating more of brokenness.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, if you refuse [00:38:51] to challenge the root causes of the things that are creating that brokenness in [00:38:56] society, the things that are creating divorce, the things that are creating singleness way beyond, [00:39:01] uh, the age where this man or woman wants to be single, whatever is [00:39:06] causing that to happen, they're... Those are things that if we say, "Look, it's just..."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: [00:39:11] If we dive into those things, we're gonna risk, and you would do, I think every time you talk about one of those things, you [00:39:16] risk people hearing, "Oh, I'm less than. Um, I'm not the [00:39:21] ideal, and therefore I don't belong in this community." Um, you, you do risk the fact [00:39:26] that- We're not directly addressing the things that are [00:39:31] creating this for the future.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And, a lot of what I feel in these conversations personally, [00:39:36] internally, is a tension between loving, um, the [00:39:41] people that are right in front of me and loving the next generation. Like, I think a lot of what [00:39:46] this- th- that's... If I could just frame up how I feel every time I'm- Yeah

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I feel this collision, [00:39:51] th- I, I, I think that is an absolutely, that's an incredibly difficult thing to resolve. [00:39:56] Uh, because, uh, and I, I, I sort of have personally made [00:40:01] a decision, I would say, to primarily live my life to serve the next generation. Like, [00:40:06] I, I think about them, I wanna help them. When I look at, like, five-year-olds, [00:40:11] 10-year-olds, 15-year-olds, you know, like, like, the, I'm just, like, thinking a lot about how can I help [00:40:16] this gener- And a lot of that happened to me because when I became a father, I just was, I started to, like, [00:40:21] think about...

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Something hit me immediately. I remember holding my f- you know, daughter Kelsey for the [00:40:26] first time, and something just, like, erupted inside of me, which is like you... My [00:40:31] job felt like it became, like, I need to help... Like, I was, I think I was, I was [00:40:36] fundamentally very selfish, um, relatively speaking, uh, before that moment, and [00:40:41] something in that moment just made me want to give my life, um, you know, for [00:40:46] my kids.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And, and so I think that shift was so profound just in my heart [00:40:51] that I think it, it, every time I, I, I hit these topics, I think I [00:40:56] primarily think about them through the lens of being a father. Like, I'm like, "Okay, I'm a father," and it's just [00:41:01] not just my kids, but it's just, like, it's, it's the next generation.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, we keep messing [00:41:06] up th- we keep making the world more difficult for every generation. And so that's why I always think [00:41:11] about this, like, there's the hospital problem, which is, like, you have broken people now that are in front of you [00:41:16] now, that need help now. They're suffering now. Like, a- and so you need to help those people.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: [00:41:21] But, uh, I think we're not acknowledging that when we help those people, certain [00:41:26] things like, uh, like you're looking at that single parent, you're saying, "Your life is hard enough. The last thing you need is [00:41:31] somebody getting in front of a church and proclaiming how important it, [00:41:36] uh, you know, th- a two-parent family is.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I mean, please don't do that to that single parent." [00:41:41] And I'm like, "But What, by refusing to do that you're [00:41:46] also making life much harder for the next generation, and isn't that part of your calling as well? And so [00:41:51] that's, I, I think the, I think the hospital, like a thing about it oftentimes is like the hospital versus the training [00:41:56] camp, you know?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, these are like almost two analogies for the church. You know, the church sometimes is like [00:42:01] the hospital for broken people. We're all recovering from sin, we're all needing help, and we need to be loved [00:42:06] back into the kingdom. It's his kindness that leads us to repentance and not, not his constant, you know, [00:42:11] berating us with, with truth.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: However, we're also called to train and make disciples, [00:42:16] which is to train up the next generation of believers, you know, both, you know, spiritually [00:42:21] and, and physically in our own families. And I, I think that, I think there are, every one of these [00:42:26] topics, these sort of hot button topics, uh, culturally, I think, I think [00:42:31] there are zero-sum, um, collisions of for, [00:42:36] of messaging, where if you message really hard to the hospital, you [00:42:41] actually are inadvertently hurting the next generation.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And when you message really hard to the [00:42:46] next generation, you are inadvertently hurting people that are already suffering in the hospital. [00:42:51] Like, I think that, I, I see that as, I don't, I do not know how to resolve that. But I think that in some [00:42:56] way, and this is maybe part of what you said about like, like you need a series or lots of [00:43:01] nuance.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I think part, part of it is maybe of like if you had two hours and you were [00:43:06] sitting in a circle and you were like, you know, answering questions and like working through this stuff with [00:43:11] lots of nuance and lots of, lots of, uh, empathy, you might be able to properly do it. [00:43:16] But there's something almost unique about the lecture or the like proclaiming truth, [00:43:21] you know, that like I'm gonna proclaim, you know, to this group prophetically.[00:43:26]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I'm not gonna say, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna address the hospital. I'm going to address the next [00:43:31] generation. Guys, I'm sorry, we screwed things up so much. The divorce rate is appalling. I [00:43:36] can't believe what we've done to you guys. I'm so sorry pornography is everywhere. It's destroying, you [00:43:41] know, young men's ability to like, you know...

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I'm, I'm so sorry to your, you know, their, their, you're [00:43:46] gonna grow up and fi- find, you, you daughters, you're gonna have a much harder time finding, you know, a [00:43:51] man who's really worthy of, of you giving your life to them in, in marriage. And you guys, [00:43:56] like that's all harder because of this. Every- everything you say to that generation is gonna [00:44:01] be perceived by people over here saying, "Well, what about me?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: [00:44:06] Like I, I grew up in a non-Christian family and I just, you know, or I struggle with sin, and what is [00:44:11] that? Like am I, am I unrecoverable?" So that- that's what I see, like that's, I feel that tension [00:44:16] a lot in these conversations. Y- and so, so with that proclamation of truth, are you [00:44:21] saying and we still have to do it?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Or are you saying, "Oh, this is why it's so hard"? I, I, [00:44:26] I think it's so hard. I t- I totally think we should do it, yes. I think you have to say it [00:44:31] somehow. Like, you can't... Like, p- there's a p- part of what I think is [00:44:36] challenging is the Bible itself primarily proclaims truth. It doesn't [00:44:41] primarily attempt to nuance to, uh, broken people.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, and, [00:44:46] and I think that it does that, but I think it's... I think that you're, you're reading it and you're like, [00:44:51] it's just, you know, you wake up in the morning and you read a chapter, and it just hits you in the face [00:44:56] with, "Hey, this is what God thinks." And, um, and I, I think that's, I think [00:45:01] part of where... You know, we've talked about these two audiences.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: There's the audience of the, uh, [00:45:06] broken people, there's the audience of the kinda next generation. There's also a third audience, and I [00:45:11] think, I think scripture's primarily from the perspective of the third audience, which is g- a kind of a God's eye [00:45:16] perspective. Like, God, God's the one who's primarily being, um, you know, [00:45:21] impacted, or sin is primarily an issue between us and God.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: It's not primarily an [00:45:26] issue of, you know, how we're building families or whether or not we're having flourishing life. It's not about [00:45:31] me. Like, that's not the... The story of scripture is, is it, it involves me. I'm a character. God loves me. [00:45:36] God is trying to reach me. But it's, a lot of the discussion around sin, particularly when you're [00:45:41] reading a chapter like Romans 1, it's just shockingly God's eye perspective.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: God's [00:45:46] wrath is being poured out against all the ungodliness. You know, it's talking directly to non-believers [00:45:51] and how angry God is with the, how much non-believers, the non-believing [00:45:56] world, the ungodly world, is basically Paul's framing there in Romans 1, how much it, it's [00:46:01] hurting, humans are hurting humans, and, but is primarily framed as a [00:46:06] rebellion against God, right?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: That's right. Not, not, not as a, not as a problem with us living our best life. And so I [00:46:11] think that's the third category of, of, of, um, of, of this. Maybe that [00:46:16] can bring them together in a way that's more helpful. But, um, but I think [00:46:21] it feels like you have so many, so many different options when [00:46:26] you're trying to have a nuanced conversation, uh, and, and hit these from these different [00:46:31] angles, and that's where a lot of this can get, I think, very, very complicated.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Oh, [00:46:36] 100%, and I think that's a, that's a great way to frame it. I [00:46:41] mean, I, I would've come into this saying I think we're doing different things, uh, like, in the [00:46:46] kingdom, and, um- I-- here's what I wish, and maybe here's [00:46:51] like a, a revelation I've had in the last five minutes of like, okay, this hospital thing, but also the next [00:46:56] generation.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I have, uh, especially from a lot of your [00:47:01] perspective, and I think we would still disagree, I'm like, I think Jesus reintroduced a new kind of family that w- is called the [00:47:06] church, and that's the primary vehicle that he's bringing his kingdom. I'm guessing that you would say, "No, it's probably [00:47:11] more of a Hebraic, a nuclear family, this multi-generational family."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I'm a big fan of both. You're a big fan of [00:47:16] both. But we probably disagree there. We maybe disagree and maybe I'm having [00:47:21] too much nuance, maybe you're too proclaiming. And I have so [00:47:26] much, uh, respect and yeah, and we've had great [00:47:31] conversations and I'm like, man, I really like you. I wish people could hold the [00:47:36] nuance that, uh, and maybe behind closed doors you're like, "Chris is an idiot," but then you probably wouldn't invite me on the [00:47:41] podcast.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Where I'm like, oh, now I see your perspective. Like, [00:47:46] you are primarily concerned, you had a moment when you held your daughter and you're like, [00:47:51] "This is changing my life." I mean, I had a moment when I held my daughter and I was like, "Science works. We got pregnant. That's [00:47:56] crazy." Like, so we had different experiences.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I am primarily [00:48:01] in the hospital scene where I'm like, gosh, I feel like we've got [00:48:06] to make sure that all people, 'cause God is a shepherd, we've [00:48:11] gotta shepherd all people into formation to Jesus. And I'm right there. [00:48:16] But you're also right when you're saying we have to actually think about the generation after us and the [00:48:21] generation after this.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And the reason we have a hospital is because the generation before us, [00:48:26] simplicity, did not disciple men, and so now we've got a lot of women that either have [00:48:31] two choices that they don't really wanna have. And so I'm like, gosh, I just wish [00:48:36] the church could say, "Okay, I'm, I don't think I'm gonna hate the other side.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I'd love to know what he's [00:48:41] talking about here." And because I'm like, that makes a lot of sense. And I do even wonder how [00:48:46] much of the church is like, "Okay, well, I'll take the hospital, you take the [00:48:51] whatever, I don't know, city hall, and uh, you're gonna do a more [00:48:56] global view of this."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And um, and that's the difference between our jobs, it also it's the difference in the [00:49:01] church because not all of us are called to do one thing. So anyway, this started as a [00:49:06] conversation about singleness, and I'm like, I just wish we knew how to have nuanced conversations with people that we disagree [00:49:11] with and still respected.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And uh, and now I'm like, I get more of why Jeremy [00:49:16] is probably in the more, more of the camp of ideally we're getting married young, having lots of [00:49:21] kids. And yeah. And I also am like, we have, I, I've got people [00:49:26] in front of me that have been hurt by that rhetoric [00:49:31] And I I don't know if the rhetoric's wrong, but I do think we can do it better, and that's what I'm passionate [00:49:36] about is like, okay, if we do think the ideal is marriage and kids, [00:49:41] then we can still talk about it in a respectful way, and we can address that we're not living in the [00:49:46] ideal.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And until he comes back again, We are going to be dealing with some form of sin, [00:49:51] um, in one way or another. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and I, I would say, [00:49:56] um Just, uh, like t- two points that, that you made. One is [00:50:01] I, I don't think marriage and kids is actually the ideal. I think that there are two ideals.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: There's a s- [00:50:06] this, there's a single ideal and there's a married ideal. I think what I wish [00:50:11] is that when people are called to pursue marriage, they know that they don't, they're [00:50:16] not supposed to be single. Um, that we should, we... That's where I feel like creating a culture [00:50:21] where early marriage is, is, uh, on average, again, this, I'm not ta- speaking to a direct, [00:50:26] directly to a person.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I'm saying if you have, you know, 1,000 people being [00:50:31] raised and you have some responsibility for creating a culture for people that God has called to be [00:50:36] married. Would I rather the average age of marriage be 29 like it is today? Is that, [00:50:41] is that, is that something that we should celebrate and just say that's normal, and if the culture makes it 35, [00:50:46] you know, n- next year, we'll, we'll, we'll just move it up to 35?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I do not understand why the [00:50:51] church is following the culture in this area at all. We know why the culture went there. The, it's through [00:50:56] promiscuous s*x. It's because there has been incredible brokenness that's happened, because there has been a [00:51:01] incredible rise in, in sort of narcissism and the idea that you should fight for yourself.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: All those things [00:51:06] make sense, and if I were a non-Christian raising kids, I would say, "Guys, like go find yourself first, you know? Do [00:51:11] not get married young." Mm-hmm. "Please get married older." You know? Um, I'm not a, I'm not a non-believer, you know? And so, I [00:51:16] think the fact that our rates of marriage are following like a 10-year [00:51:21] lagging indicator on what happens in the culture.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I say that that, that does sort of fall at the [00:51:26] feet of the church and the church is dropping the ball. Like we should not be following the culture in this [00:51:31] area. The culture is following a very broken pathway and we have to stand up to [00:51:36] that. So that's on one hand. I'm, so but I definitely think that there's a singleness [00:51:41] ideal in the Bible as well.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: The New Testament presents that. And if you're called to singleness, I wish we had [00:51:46] a lot more celebration of people that have the gift of singleness. I, I wish we had, [00:51:51] um, I, I mean, I think in monastic communities where there is, there is a, there is a sense in which you can [00:51:56] be fully a part of the Christian family and that it's clear [00:52:01] what a, uh, a woman or a man who's single for life, what their lifestyle looks like.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I think the fact that we have no [00:52:06] idea how to handle this in a Protestant world is really a huge challenge. Um, [00:52:11] and I, I, uh, I think that's, that's really tough. That's, that's on that side. And then, um, you [00:52:16] know, o- on like the collision between the family and the church, [00:52:21] so, so I, I came at this whole family conversation not from the perspective [00:52:26] of family, but from the perspective of church.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I was trying to plant churches. That, that was, you know, I spent, you [00:52:31] know, many years planting churches and what I started to [00:52:36] Um, focus on family formation because of the challenges I was having in church [00:52:41] planting. Um, and- Right ... and so I, I think that part of what I've, I've struggled with is I do [00:52:46] think the church is the primary family that we're trying to build.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I think that if we lose [00:52:51] the biblical idea of family, then I think we're going to lose how to build [00:52:56] churches, and that, that's, that's where I f- that's, that's kind of the order of- Fascinating. I think the [00:53:01] family, if, if like, if, if, if you can imagine a world, and we've seen this, you know, imagine a world [00:53:06] where nobody understands or celebrates fatherhood, then all of a sudden you say, "God's a father."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, people- Hmm ... [00:53:11] we see it when that happens. But the church is supposed to be siblings, right? Sons and dau- like we're talking about [00:53:16] brothers and sisters. But what happens in a culture where everyone is, [00:53:21] like, when they think about siblings, they're like, "Oh, man, I can't wait to get away from my brothers and sisters."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: "Hey, why don't you [00:53:26] come be part of the church? You know, it'd be like having 100 times more brothers and sisters. Wouldn't that be amazing?" Yeah. And the [00:53:31] whole culture's like, "What are you crazy? Like, I just finally got, got away from my toxic [00:53:36] family." Like, you can't imagine how devastating that is to the ability for a [00:53:41] church to pro- proclaim the gospel through being a new kind of family, when family [00:53:46] itself has been destroyed by the culture.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So that, that is why I'm fighting for family. I [00:53:51] think that we are- Hmm ... losing the church. We are losing what the church was designed to be, and, um, [00:53:56] and so I said, "Okay, we're gonna take a big step back from, you know, a lot of our efforts in church [00:54:01] planting, and really begin to focus on how can we reestablish [00:54:06] biblical, like, experiences of family, and then have those families provide the [00:54:11] foundational experience of what the church is, that when you walk into a family's house and you're like, [00:54:16] what just happened between that father and that daughter?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: What just happened between that mother and that son? What just happened between [00:54:21] that sister and that brother?" Guys, this is what... We're, we're, we're trying to give this to the entire [00:54:26] culture. Everyone who comes to faith- It's good ... in the, in the gospel. They're go- whatever you just saw around that [00:54:31] table, with that mom, that dad, that bro- that, that is what we're aiming at.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But, but we're about to [00:54:36] lose that. And, like, and I, where I grew up, you know, in Seattle, I, I feel like we had lost [00:54:41] that. Like I, I didn't know what those things were. And so I was sort of church planting [00:54:46] blind in that sense, like trying to, trying to create an experience of [00:54:51] something, of the church being like a family, having never been a part of a [00:54:56] culture of strong multigenerational family, uh, ties and connections.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: We were all trying [00:55:01] to get away from our families at some level, and just universally, not my family in particular, but [00:55:06] we were really, that was the culture I grew up in. And man, it just [00:55:11] destroyed my ability to see and understand the church. And I started... What really healed me was, [00:55:16] um, both living in the Middle East, seeing an ancient, you know, sort of much more biblical [00:55:21] way of doing family, and then just experiencing that in my own life.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: It's wh- it start, it's... Now [00:55:26] I'm like, "Okay, I think I, I have a vision for the church that- Yeah ... um, is [00:55:31] actually, like, consistent with the scriptures Yeah. That's, that's so good. [00:55:36] One, and so, and I've heard, I've heard a lot of your story. You're going [00:55:41] upstream. So you would say, "No, I actually still very much care about the church.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I care so much about the church that I'm going [00:55:46] upstream to the things that are feeding the church." And I'm like, "Oh my gosh," like that's, I [00:55:51] think that's needed. It's brilliant. I'm, I'm staying here, and I'm really grateful for, [00:55:56] um, for people that are actually doing the work at, at not a higher level, but at a [00:56:01] more meta level.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And, and I mean, you've said this at the beginning, in a lot of ways, City Church [00:56:06] is the recipient of a lot of the families that you've influenced 'cause now they, this is their local church, but they've [00:56:11] really been influenced or discipled by, by you guys. And so I think, um, I [00:56:16] mean even that like clear delineation of like I care so much about the church that I wanna go [00:56:21] upstream and help her in that way.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So, and I'm like, [00:56:26] I, I, we are, uh, recipients. We are, we, we [00:56:31] have this problem right now. We're in a hospital, and I'm like, okay, I also wanna make sure [00:56:36] that if you've been, if this is the hand you've been dealt, whether you want it to be dealt it or not, [00:56:41] we, we do that well. Um, could I like, I just have a few things that I [00:56:46] gathered from like my single friends.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Can I just- Yes ... especially with who I imagine listens to [00:56:51] this, it's people that are like, yes, the family. I think the family [00:56:56] or families or even just being married in the church, we start [00:57:01] as, in some ways, either the default or the ideal of what is [00:57:06] perceived, whether it's real or not, the perceived ideal, the default, and I think we [00:57:11] hold more of the intrinsic power [00:57:16] of how we can change a culture.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And so I was talking to single friends today, and I was like, "Hey, what would you, [00:57:21] like, if you got the platform and you just got to say everything to families, what would you wanna say?" [00:57:26] I, could I just give, like- Okay ... rattle some of those off? Absolutely. Uh, [00:57:31] so I mean, one of the, one of the big things that came up is, and this is just an [00:57:36] overarching phrase, be sensitive, especially if I want to be married, I am no one's [00:57:41] priority.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I've heard that said from, uh, mostly people in their upper [00:57:46] 30s to 40s, single men and single women. So I think it's good to even [00:57:51] understand what's some of the pain from singleness, 'cause I also heard from my friend and she's [00:57:56] like, "Look, it's not all bad. You, Chris, have been interrupted almost every night this [00:58:01] week in your sleep.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I have not, and I sleep in on my days off, and it is wonderful." [00:58:06] And I don't... And I'm like, "Oh, that's right." She said, um, it's, it's like, "Please [00:58:11] don't pity us." And so to some degree it's like, yeah, we shouldn't pity anyone, espec- even if [00:58:16] they want to be married, there are aspects of their life. But they, uh, they did say may [00:58:21] have compassion, uh, on even the fact that we want something that we do not have.[00:58:26]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And a lot of it comes actually from worrying down the line, and this is where I'm like the church needs to be a [00:58:31] family of what happens when I get old. So if I remain single [00:58:36] the rest of my life, and the typical is that, you know, your kids take care of you when you're old, what happens [00:58:41] when I get old? Um, what happens on holidays, and I see this even increasingly [00:58:46] like, oh, everybody goes to their families or we all kind of turn inward on our families, which I [00:58:51] think is a good thing.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, I will be spending Christmas morning with my family of four, so [00:58:56] that feels good and healthy. But also being mindful of, oh, that's right, like [00:59:01] not everybody gets to do that. And I think just the awareness and the curiosity [00:59:06] is helpful. Um, another thing that, that I heard from, um, some of [00:59:11] them is even just showing up to church, so I'm [00:59:16] talking now local church context, it takes courage for me [00:59:21] to to show up to church for the first time.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Uh, because I, when I show [00:59:26] up, like, you know, Catherine and I this summer we went to a couple other churches, not our own. We didn't [00:59:31] know anybody. Nobody really talked to us. It was kinda disappointing, but I didn't feel lonely because I came [00:59:36] with my spouse. Mm. And like, oh, that's great, I've built in community.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But three years [00:59:41] ago, uh, my son was born. Catherine was fine. I wasn't gonna go to my church. [00:59:46] We were... Somebody else was preaching. I was like, "You know, I'm just gonna pop into another church." And I showed up by [00:59:51] myself, and it was very... It was like, oh, I feel exposed or I feel like- [00:59:56] This is, this took courage, and I didn't know it was gonna take courage.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So I think [01:00:01] as the family or as families, can we keep an eye out for like, this [01:00:06] take extra courage for me, a fa- a, you know, a married man to show up to church. It took extra courage for a [01:00:11] single man or a single woman to show up. Um, there's often a power dynamic of like, "Oh yeah, we wanna [01:00:16] do life with you." If that's true, invite them over for dinner.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Make sure that [01:00:21] you're actually merging your life. And here's even a step further, and it's insane, and a lot of the families that [01:00:26] you interact with, Jeremy, have five, six, seven, eight kids. But, or let them invite [01:00:31] you over, because there's even this intrinsic power dynamic of when you come into my [01:00:36] house, I'm familiar.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I know where the forks are. I know where the spoons are. I know how to change the temperature. You [01:00:41] don't know any of that. Like, I've got a little power over you. And I think some of it is like, how do we [01:00:46] make sure that we feel like there's no power dynamic? I think even a step further is [01:00:51] I remember, uh, these three single guys invited me and Catherine and our, like, [01:00:56] baby girl, uh, Esther, over a couple years ago, and, and they were like, "We can't [01:01:01] believe you came."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I mean, of course we came." And they're like, [01:01:06] "That's, like, it's crazy that you guys would come to our house." And I remember leaving and it's like, oh, I, like, [01:01:11] leveled the playing field. I didn't know I was doing it, so don't give me credit. But there's a leveling of the [01:01:16] playing field when we do something like that.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: So anyway, my [01:01:21] encourage- My, I think where I get passionate, what I'm trying to get better at, 'cause I don't do it perfectly, [01:01:26] is, okay, how do people that are married, people with families, [01:01:31] how do we actually make sure we're doing everything we can to welcome single people into the [01:01:36] church and make sure that they know getting married is not the next step of discipleship?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: You [01:01:41] don't have to get married to kind of move to the next level of sanctification, but this is a beautiful [01:01:46] spot that you're at right now, and you might only be here for one more year, a few more weeks, rest of your [01:01:51] life. But the Lord has you here, right here, and He has something for you right now. [01:01:56] So- Yeah.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Man, Man, that's really helpful. Th- so th- there's a natural collision [01:02:01] in these two cultures, you're saying, and we're like, the singles are [01:02:06] like, "Hey, be aware. There's an asymmetry between the, you know, what, what it feels like to be a [01:02:11] married person and what it feels like to be a single person."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, do you have time for one more [01:02:16] question before I- Yeah, shoot ... kind of we're... Okay. Yep. [01:02:21] Do you think for somebody in that situation, 'cause a lot of the things you mentioned which were, you know, [01:02:26] like I'm no one's priority. When I show up to church, I am, you know, like I could [01:02:31] be profoundly lonely, uh, compared to somebody who does that.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: You know, inviting somebody, like you [01:02:36] mentioned these three guys invited you and Catherine over. Do you feel like for [01:02:41] singles in the church, they're already a believer.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: They're, they're trying to follow the Lord. They... There's no [01:02:46] prospect of them getting married anytime soon. Should they be living [01:02:51] alone in an apartment? Like or would you say, "Hey," um, in, in the same way again [01:02:56] where, you know, there's this weird collision of ideals. Um, I think you [01:03:01] should be working your way towards living in community.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like Jesus sent the disciples out two by [01:03:06] two. We don't have any indication that Paul ever, you know, was out there by himself. Every time you see [01:03:11] single people, whether it's Jesus, you know, with the disciples, unless he's in some, you know, desert [01:03:16] wilderness season, you know, like 40 days in the wilderness.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like we don't see people, [01:03:21] um, isolated and alone in ev- even in the single life in the New [01:03:26] Testament. Um, yeah, any thoughts on, on that or what, what you've seen works there or is that, [01:03:31] would that also be hurtful to, to be encouraging them to form communities? [01:03:36] Yeah. Man, I I hate making statements if I haven't thought [01:03:41] about it for 24 hours.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But I'm pretty sure I'm pro [01:03:46] living in community. Yeah, ag- and I also, I've actually never [01:03:51] lived alone, so I've never done it. Always had roommates, [01:03:56] and I do think it's just good, like to live in community. [01:04:01] So- Yeah, even the way, you know, we do [01:04:06] our groups ministry kind of like little churches, uh, here [01:04:11] is we don't separate like, like, okay, so we have a singles group and a married group.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, the idea [01:04:16] is we get the generations and the marital statuses all together. You got kids, you don't have kids. [01:04:21] Now there's some challenges there. Like, there's a reason more married people have single people over than the other way [01:04:26] around is 'cause we are more comfortable at my house, and there's at least toys that my two and [01:04:31] four-year-old can go play with.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: They're not at your house or your one-bedroom, two-bedroom apartment. [01:04:36] Um, but I'm a big fan of communal living. We have a lot of people, like singles that are living with [01:04:41] married families. Um, I think that's really great, but I think just in general, [01:04:46] it's good to live with people because I think that's a sanctifying process.[01:04:51]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Um, it's tough to keep your guard up at home at 10:00 [01:04:56] PM or 7:00 AM, and so people are gonna see the sin nature, [01:05:01] sin patterns in you, and it's like, oh, that's good for you to be living a transparent [01:05:06] life. Yeah. Uh, that's my intuition, and it, it seems, like I said, [01:05:11] biblically sound advice. Like again, we're, we're talking about, you know, it's not sinful [01:05:16] to have an apartment, you know?

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But when it's like I think we need to be [01:05:21] promoting, um, like a series of, of norms that are [01:05:26] just generally wise, understanding that these are all generalizations, but these are generally wise. It's [01:05:31] generally better to live in community when you're single. Um, and, uh, and, and [01:05:36] so there's in, in the same way, like I would say things are generally true, I would [01:05:41] say another, another one that, you know, I, I think is challenging for a lot of people, but [01:05:46] I, I try to say when I'm speaking to single people is if you believe you're called [01:05:51] to marriage, I do think that you need to put effort into pursuing a spouse, [01:05:56] and that if you're waiting for this to happen, um, and you know that [01:06:01] you're in a community where there are no prospects and you're not willing to, to [01:06:06] go to other communities or have any other experiences, you're just saying, "I'm just praying and hoping [01:06:11] that God will bring, you know, that person to me."

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: I don't know, you know, and you're, uh, and the year, the months and [01:06:16] years are going by, I, I think that's a strategic mistake, uh, generally speaking. Again, [01:06:21] people can be called- Yeah ... to be in these situations, and they need to follow the Lord. But I, I would [01:06:26] say, and, and I, we, we were, you know, in a situation in, with our [01:06:31] kids going to YWAM where they were, um- Th- this advice was not being given to single [01:06:36] people, and it was really frustrating to me, um, that basically you had people that were, you know, [01:06:41] in, in their early 30s that felt called to marriage signing covenants where they were not [01:06:46] allowed to be in a romantic relationship for multiple years.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And I'm like, "Why are we doing that in the church?" [01:06:51] You know? Why, why aren't we saying, look, if this person has said that [01:06:56] they're, they feel called to be a mother or a husband, and they desire [01:07:01] marriage, and now they're in a immersive community of singles, that we're, [01:07:06] um, basically legislating against them getting into relationships.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: Like, to me, that just pushes [01:07:11] it too far. I get the challenges. I get that there's simplicity- Yeah ... to saying, "We're on a [01:07:16] mission. Stay focused." But I just think marriage is more important. [01:07:21] Like, this- Yeah ... person's life, it's not just this year, but th- the [01:07:26] decades of their life and all the children that could come from that marriage hang in the balance.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: And then, uh, I [01:07:31] think within the church we should be aware that that's, that is an okay thing to [01:07:36] prioritize. Um, and just seeing that in, in these situations, that being resisted, uh, [01:07:41] I'm just like- Yeah ... I have a different perspective. I, I feel like we, we need to be aware that that, [01:07:46] you know, it's a... If they're called- Totally

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: to be married, we gotta, we, we gotta find ways to help them do [01:07:51] that. So anyway, th- those are some examples of, I think, these are tricky,- topics to, [01:07:56] like, try to figure out. 'Cause I, I think you can get really tripped up by these things. I, I really wanna- Totally[01:08:01]

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: to be practical and helpful. Um, but I do think you have to say, "Okay, this, here are some generally, [01:08:06] this is generally good advice." Um- Yep ... and now let's get into the specifics, [01:08:11] because it may not apply to you. Yeah. Totally agree. And I'm like, wow, [01:08:16] when's, when's part two of this? 'Cause I'm like, I have more questions.

Singleness the Church with Chris Marlin-esv2-60p-bg-12p-music-10p: But- Yeah ... this has been great. [01:08:21] Thank, yeah, thanks for having... I'm, I'm more fascinated in even that upstream [01:08:26] idea after this, and it's like, oh, this is good. I, I want to live a life of curiosity, so [01:08:31] thank you. Awesome. Thanks so much, Chris.

Singleness Has Quadrupled: Here's What The Church Is Missing

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